Been hearing about this Zimmerman case in the Australia news.
The news is saying that it’s a big deal in the U.S. because it’s quite a polarising case. Just wondering what people are saying about this case. Is it really a case of one person in the office thinks he had a right to kill this guy and someone else thinks he committed a murder and should go down for it. I’m just curious about where the dividing lines are (i.e. is it more racial, or is it more about gun control and right to defend oneself, etc). What’s the talk about this case at the water coolers in America? Can you fill me in?
It’s a big deal because the scenario suggests race may have played a factor.
I used to smoke pot and go to class.
Sneak in ten minutes late with a bullsh*t excuse.
Slink down low at my desk.
Pray to god nobody asked me any questions.
I was the best teacher ever.
All of the above depending on who you talk to. To the NAACP it is a race issue. To gun control folks it is a gun control/”stand your ground” issue. I’m sure there are some folks on Zimmerman’s side, but I haven’t really heard much support for him in the press or from my friends/family. To me, it is just a wannabe cop who thought he was a tough guy and found out he couldn’t hold his own in a fight and pulled a gun instead of getting his a$$ kicked.
You can fondle the cube, but it will not respond.
The reason it’s a big deal is 100% race. The case itself is pretty much exactly what higgmond described.
Honestly, I don’t hear anyone but the news talking about it. No one has brought it up at work or in a social setting since the week it happened. Unless it happens to a Kardashian, American doesn’t really care.
I was thinking this too, but that maybe it’s because noone wants to get involved with a potentially sensitive race issue.
I used to smoke pot and go to class.
Sneak in ten minutes late with a bullsh*t excuse.
Slink down low at my desk.
Pray to god nobody asked me any questions.
I was the best teacher ever.
^ I agree with BS 100%. It’s almost taboo to discuss the race aspect, but to me this was profiling at its worst. I’ve heard comparisons of this case to the Rodney King beating, let’s just hope this outcome is a lot better than that one.
Race is a significant component of the controversy, but it’s not the only component. Other important factors are:
1) The victim was young (16 years old)
2) Zimmerman was not arrested due to Florida’s “stand your ground law”
3) A neighborhood watch person was patrolling around with an active firearm (In some places, police are being issued tasers because guns are too lethal. Yet, untrained volunteers can carry loaded guns?)
Race and age of the victim provoke emotional responses. So, this is what the media and public focus on. To me, gun control and self defense laws are more important. What is important depends on the person.
“I’m a CPA! I got money b***h!”
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I purposely do not follow news stories like this since it just causes my blood to boil. However, I have a feeling there is more to the story than what we are getting. The fact that Obama related to said victim as his son leads me to believe it’s grandstanding. It’ll be a political play.
All that said, has anyone heard a devil’s advocate of this case? I’ve heard through the grapevine that the kid in question was a real hell raiser while the perp really was a respected neighborhood watchman. Remember that he was not arrested at first glance as the police did not sense foul play and malice.
Playing the race card is way overdone.
I believe it has been reported that both have had incidents in their past. Pretty sure Zimmerman was charged with assault at least once and had a restraining order requested by a former girlfriend. Martin was reportedly suspended from school for having “drug related” items (think it was a bag with a few pot leaf pieces). Haven’t really heard much, if any, support for Zimmerman. To me, the fact that he left his car when the 911 dispatcher told him not to makes anything else kind of moot. It’s not like Martin was doing anything wrong that Zimmerman needed to stop.
You can fondle the cube, but it will not respond.
Yeah, I think Martin’s charge was having the remains of pot on his person at school. I think bringing that up in this debate is really grasping at straws (by the media, not you). I mean, lets be honest. Bob Marley and Willy Nelson aren’t iconic violent offenders.
I used to smoke pot and go to class.
Sneak in ten minutes late with a bullsh*t excuse.
Slink down low at my desk.
Pray to god nobody asked me any questions.
I was the best teacher ever.
That’s why the “stand your ground” law is contentious. In most states, if you are able to run away but don’t, you cannot claim self defense. In Florida, however, you do not have the obligation to run away. This might legally justify Zimmerman’s decision to not drive away, despite being advised to do so by the police.
“I’m a CPA! I got money b***h!”
The special prosecutor is pretty much incompetent. The other case she’s working besides the Zimmerman involves a 12 year old sexually abused kid being tried as an adult when he injured his brother while wrestling and his incompetent mother waited 8 hours to take him to the hospital so he died.
I don’t have a problem with the “stand your ground” law in theory. I don’t think it should apply here though because Zimmerman was the chaser, at least until he figured out that he was going to get is a$$ kicked. He was sitting in his car perfectly safe (don’t know if Martin even knew he was there); called cops to report Martin as a suspicous looking person; was told by dispatcher to stay in his car and that police would come and check; ignored dispatcher and decided to follow and confront Martin. That is not “standing your ground” to me.
You can fondle the cube, but it will not respond.
This is a big part of it too. If Zimmerman would have been immediately arrested there wouldn’t have been as big of a hoopla. Still would have made news, but not nearly as much. I’m a firm supporter of self-defense laws, but there should have been a more proactive approach by the DA. At least look like you’re trying to do something.
100% agreed.
^Yeah, I think this is the prevailing view
I used to smoke pot and go to class.
Sneak in ten minutes late with a bullsh*t excuse.
Slink down low at my desk.
Pray to god nobody asked me any questions.
I was the best teacher ever.
Studying With
In other news. How one Earth will they get an impartial Jury?????
^ maybe the OJ jurors are available.
You can fondle the cube, but it will not respond.
Do the jurors have to be from Florida?
I live in Orlando. In the last year we have had Tiger Woods and his scandal, Casey Anthony trial, and now Trayvon Martin. Ridiculous.
Zimmerman should go to prison for 2nd degree murder. The kid was walking away from him and the cops told him not to do anything.
The stand your ground law is great but this has nothing to do with it. I’m pro-gun as well.
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What do you mean? If the “stand your ground” law did not exist, Zimmerman would almost definitely be convicted; he could have retreated but did not. It is because of this law that he was not arrested immediately and might be found innocent. Other things might also matter, but this law is very material to this case.
“I’m a CPA! I got money b***h!”
The fact that he wasn’t arrested immediately really doesn’t mean anything. It’s the job of the DA to bring charges. He wasn’t arrested at the time because significant evidence didn’t exist that a crime was committed. After going through the facts, they decided to bring the murder charge.
OK so yes that law is significant but what I mean is it isn’t applicable to his defense. Yes he is going to claim that it qualifies but the fact that the kid was walking away from him and the cops told him not to do anything he should be convicted. BUT this is FL and FL is filled with the dregs of society. Anything can happen in a jury trial.
What that law means is if someone breaks into your house you can shoot and kill them. Or something similar. Most other states you have to show the assailant is going to harm/kill you but in FL if someone breaks into your house and is high/drunk whatever, you can shoot them. Same in TX. I really don’t have a problem with that.
That kid was not on Zimmerman’s property. Was not inside his car or did not take any of his personal property.
So, in a perfect world Zimmerman should be convicted of 2nd degree murder. BUT once again this is FL.
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^Respect. FL is a horse of a different color.
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http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=safari&gl=us&biw=320&bih=396&t...
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False. I quote, “Under “stand your ground” in this state, you have a right to have a firearm with you. You have a right to basically have a heated discussion with somebody,” said Tampa defense attorney John Fitzgibbons. “And if you are in reasonable fear of your life because of actions taken by another person, then you are allowed to use deadly force.” Artile below.
TAMPA — Trevor Dooley’s lawyers say it was an act of self-defense — pulling the trigger kept him alive.
David James was on top of him, hands around Dooley’s neck. Dooley couldn’t breathe. He tried to warn James by poking him in the leg twice with a handgun.
When it didn’t work, Dooley fired.
Lawyers for Dooley, the man accused of killing his Valrico neighbor, submitted their argument Thursday in a motion asking a judge to dismiss the manslaughter charge against him.
Their main defense? Florida’s “stand your ground” law.
The law allows a person to use deadly force to save his own life, even if retreat is possible.
The filing comes at a time when national attention is focused on another Florida case in which the “stand your ground” law has been invoked.
More than six weeks after the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin in Sanford, authorities arrested George Zimmerman Wednesday amid public outcry for justice. Charged with second-degree murder, Zimmerman told Sanford police he shot Martin in self-defense after Martin attacked him.
Dooley’s lawyers also say the then 69-year-old was protecting himself when he shot James, 41, after a 2010 argument over skateboarding.
According to the Hillsborough County Sheriff’s Office, the altercation began when Dooley approached the basketball courts in his Twin Lakes subdivision telling a skateboarder he wasn’t allowed. James protested.
Dooley, who had a concealed weapons permit, started to walk away with a gun partially visible in his waistband, deputies said. James called after him and Dooley turned back. James lunged, and they both tumbled to the ground.
James, a 20-year Air Force veteran, was kneeling on top of Dooley when the gun went off.
Now, it will be up to Hillsborough Circuit Judge Ashley Moody to make the call. She can decide to move forward with a jury trial or dismiss the charge based on the law.
In order to use the law, several factors must be met.
“Under “stand your ground” in this state, you have a right to have a firearm with you. You have a right to basically have a heated discussion with somebody,” said Tampa defense attorney John Fitzgibbons. “And if you are in reasonable fear of your life because of actions taken by another person, then you are allowed to use deadly force.”
In the motion filed Thursday, Dooley’s lawyers outline four important details in their case.
First, Dooley was not engaged in any illegal activities, they stated. Though Dooley was charged with improper exhibition of a firearm and openly carrying a firearm, the motion denies this. It states that Dooley always kept his handgun in his right pants pocket.
Second, Dooley was attacked. James “lunged” and “charged” at Dooley, the motion states.
“(James) gave Mr. Dooley no choice but to defend himself when he pinned him to the ground and began choking him.”
Third, the motion states Dooley had a right to be at the park because he was a resident of the community.
And fourth, Dooley believed firing the gun was necessary to prevent his own death.
“Here, the evidence is overwhelming that Mr. Dooley had a choice that day,” the motion states, “either wait to be killed by (James) or defend himself by using his handgun he was legally carrying.”
The motion also points out the size and appearance of James as a contributing factor to Dooley’s fear for his life. James was younger, heavier and stronger than Dooley, the motion states. Dooley was weaker and more fragile due to existing medical conditions.
The state is expected to present its side to Judge Moody in a motion later this month.
In the end, it will come down to what the evidence shows.
“No matter how you view the statute,” Fitzgibbons said, “it would appear to apply if, and only if, you believe Trevor Dooley’s version of the events.”
http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/criminal/trevor-dooleys-lawyers-seek-dismissal-in-tampa-stand-your-ground-case/1224750
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What pissses me off about this case is that people on either side presume to know what happened.
There is a reasonable chance that Martin attacked Zimmerman and he was protecting his own life. Based on what we know, this might have happened. If that is the case, it’s hard to blame Zimmerman for shooting him.
Conversely, there is a reasonable chance that Martin was on his knees praying to Jesus, thinking pure thoughts, when the big bad neo nazi, white (but actually latino) wanna be cop in the ku klux klan uniform murdered the teenager in cold blood. Also plausible based on what we know so far.
Depending on who you talk to you will get both of these versions of the story and people talk about it with full certainty. I think the only correct answer so far is, we need to see the facts. And by We, I mean a jury.
People like spike lee should be arrested for putting people in danger the way he did when he tweeted the wrong address to zimmerman to his fans.
Blake, I’m calling you out, since you love to go Zimmerman on me usually, how can you say he deserves a 2nd degree murder charge? Were you there? Can you say unquivocably one way or the other that Martin did not attack him? Of course you cannot. You are merely speculating.
From what we do know, someone who was pretty young, overzealous and ill equipped to handle the situation used pretty lousy judgement and f*cked up pretty badly. In hindsight he should have stayed in his car and waited for the police. I’m not sure what crime that is, it might be one, I’m just not sure what to call it. Stupidity? Still, there is nothing illegal about approaching someone. Nothing.
What happenened next is anybody’s guess and until the jury decides the public should stay out of this so that the victims and the defendent can have a fair trial based on facts and not on mob rule.
Formerly ChickenTikka - Member of the Order of the Righteous Rusty Hacksaw
^Agreed 100%.
It’s shocking and pretty disgusting how quickly everyone has rushed to judgement on this case.
Honestly I think world would be much safer if only gangsters and cops carried guns. It seems that when civilians are allowed to carry guns all they end up doing is sticking their nose into other people’s business and then using guns when they find out they scrap worth a lick.
Thats pretty much the definition of 2nd degree murder, I’ve had a few old friends who put themselves in similar situations so I can somewhat understand the situation. He might get lucky and plead down to manslaughter and do 5-8 years (2 if he was in canada) but a 2nd degree murder charge is appropriate in these circumstances.
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Once again, you’re assuming he just shot Martin without any struggle or altercation. You’re taking the Martin is 100 percent innocent and was killed by the white supremecist story. We do not know if there was a fight. We do not know if Martin threatened him or not.
There is NO crimei in being stupid and approaching someone. That is not 2nd degree murder. It is probably poor judgement. But that’s not a crime in America.
I have a feeling that involuntary manslaughter is the most they are gonna get in this case. How are the gonna prove that he had the “intent to kill” for the 2nd degree murder charge?
He’re another good one: This guy hasn’t been arrested yet either. I guess that’s because Al Sharpton doesn’t get outraged on behalf of white people.
http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/local/sw_valley/family-of-man-shot-...
Formerly ChickenTikka - Member of the Order of the Righteous Rusty Hacksaw
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