But stereotypes can be true statistically. On average, Asian students get better grades than students of other races. Asian people also, on average, make more money in the US than people of other races. While individual members of the population might defy these statistics, there is a difference when looking at the population as a whole.
Racist.
Formerly ChickenTikka - Member of the Order of the Righteous Rusty Hacksaw
sherbeer’s example might illustrate reversion towards the mean. For example, one possible explanation is that all moms in her lineage are Tiger Moms. However, some children resist the effects of Tiger Mothering. Hence, sherbeer is not an “overachiever”, as she describes. However, she then falls into the same familial pattern that makes her child an overachiever.
In addition, the definition of “overachiever” is subject to interpretation. When sherbeer says that she is not an overachiever, what is she using as a comparison?
those statistical trends are shaped by social forces that will change inevitably….relying on them or using them as a guide is a sure way to mislead yourself…..
Many stereotypes are based on some degree of truth. One of the problems of Asian stereotyping, is that it is often perpetuated by new immigrants, which is growing faster than the local Asian (American) population. The Tiger Mom mentality is something that is popular in Asian countries due to the very structured school system they have there (national exams, clear cut best colleges, etc.). While many multi-generational Asian Americans will realize that the Tiger Mom way of teaching kids is sub-optimal in the US/Canada, all the recent immigrants will keep following it and make it the “common” perception of Asian parenting. That being said, I cannot imagine the bullshit a multi-generational Mexican-American family has to go through…
Yes - I agree that immigration is very important in determining culture, and that some cultural characteristics might fade once immigrant families have been in the new country for a while. However, this does not mean that statistics will mean revert completely once immigration has slowed. Take African Americans for instance. Many black people are stuck in a cycle of poverty that results in low academic achievement, low income, etc. It’s hard to say how long this will last, or if this will just continue forever - social trends are difficult to change, despite the best efforts of individuals within the population.
Or take Jewish people, for instance. Like Asians, Jewish people are statistically and stereotypically associated with high income and academic achievement. However, few Jewish people in the US are new immigrants. They have just been caught up in social and cultural trends that have perpetuated over many generations.
The other argument, of course, is whether these trends are a product of culture and ethnicity, or general socioeconomic status. However, in either case, it’s hard to say that the trends are not significant, or that they cannot persist for a very long time (if not indefinitely).
But stereotypes can be true statistically. On average, Asian students get better grades than students of other races. Asian people also, on average, make more money in the US than people of other races. While individual members of the population might defy these statistics, there is a difference when looking at the population as a whole.
According to US Census Bureau, US citizens of Asian descent do indeed have a higher median household income than other races. They also have a higher poverty rate than non-Hispanic whites though.
Part of the large black population stuck in low income, low academics I would say is due to parenting. A black person I knew once told me her parents gave her only 1 goal in life all throughout high school: don’t get pregnant.
Seriously. They didn’t say she needed to work hard, or do well in school, and she did whatever she wanted.
Few kids at that young age will discover for themselves the real need to work hard at something, unless you implant the desire or persuade them in some way, or you give them a good environment that fosters hard work to success. So, if the parent sucks and doesn’t give a damn, then the kid usually will be similar
Hope. It is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and greatest weakness.
According to US Census Bureau, US citizens of Asian decent do indeed have a higher median household income than other races. They also have a higher poverty rate than non-Hispanic whites though.
Hmm. I suspect that the poverty rate is due to immigrants. One side of my extended family, for instance, consists of Asian immigrants who got to the US under some kind of family-related visa. In general, they were not college educated, barely spoke English, were not used to high standards of living, etc. Their children, however, are very successful and earn much more money than the median US person - presumably an effect of Tiger parenting. This illustrates both the low end and high end of income, as your data suggests.
I have no data to support this, but I would suspect that more recent Asian immigrants would tend toward the higher income levels as they likely represent the cream of the crop. I’m under the impression that there aren’t all that many poor, uneducated Asians emmigrating to the US these days. There are obviously some exceptions, but I would think that the majority of Asian immigrants in the past 20 years have come here for a college education and stayed, or came here with advanced degrees already in-hand.
Some quick internet research tells me that new Asian immigrants are have a poverty rate of about 12.5%, which is lower than the poverty rate of non-Asian immigrants. So you appear to be correct that new Asian immigrants are generally not poor.
However, other research shows that poverty among US Asians is decreasing compared to poverty among non-Asians. In other words, although US Asians still have a higher poverty rate than US white people, over time, the Asians are becoming less poor. Eventually, it is possible that the US Asian poverty rate will drop below the poverty rate for US whites.
What this tells me is that old Asian immigrants, for instance Vietnamese boat people or other immigrants from 20-40 years ago, were poor. This contributed to a high initial poverty rate among US Asians. However, new Asian immigrants are well educated and rich, as are the children of the old immigrants. Thus, poverty is declining among US Asians as the original poor immigrants are replaced by younger, richer Asians.
I’m friends with a number of successful Asians and it’s clear to me that they have a better way to manage early education than any other ethnic group, so at least I’m copying to the best of my ability the Asian way of running things with my two kids. I think there are some differences among Chinese, Korean, and Indian people, but every nationality has valuable concepts. I doubt my wife will be able to replicate the discipline of a real Asian tiger mom, but as parents if we manage to make sure our kids are totally comfortable with Math from early ages and grow their knowledge from there, and later they can read sh!t, understand it and connect two reasonable ideas together, that would be a good start.
Fortunately on average we Hispanics are dumb as a rock according to every standardized measure, so I wouldn’t be surprised at all if the Hispanic card will continue to be as strong as it is now when it comes to admissions into top programs by the time my kids go to college. If they can put Asian-like numbers that should be enough. I agree it’s unfair, but I don’t make the rules.
The topic also raises the question: what about stupid Asian children? Not everyone can be smart enough to be brilliant in school regardless of his or her parents’ efforts. So, do Asian parents just give up on dumb kids after a while?
no kid is really dumb. but you use it or loose it. the same with brains. you either use and train it or stay lazy and dumb. so how the seed will grow depends on the soil it falls into. eg parenting. for a part.
just my opinion. I don’t think my kid (half Chinese, half white) is smarter than any other kid.
I think it’s gonna be increasingly difficult to benefit from affirmative action being Hispanic. There are now more puerto ricans in the US than in Puerto Rico for example. Hispanics won’t be considered a minority in 20 years.
I could already see is happening 10 years ago at my university as Black professors and deans seemed to openly clash with the Latino professors and deans over who got the funding and financial aid.
To me this George Zimmerman thing is the real death knell for Hispanic minority advantage in the admissions process. Black interest groups and liberal groups alike are both doing their damnedest to include this person amongst joe white guy the same way Italians and the Irish were the last century.
The Irish are one of the most persecuted people in history, yet nobody cries for them anymore.
Formerly ChickenTikka - Member of the Order of the Righteous Rusty Hacksaw
hey us irish guys are in alot of ways responsible for our own misfortunes, we just a bunch of moody, violent, alcoholics. However it seems everyone loves us now!
I don’t love the Irish. I rue the day they let your kind into my university and country clubs. I miss the old adage, “Irish need not apply.” Did you know that when the CFA program started, 50 years ago tomorrow,you couldn’t get a charter if you were Irish? Ben Graham hated the Irish, especially those from beyond the Pale.
If you think about it carefully, what minority group isn’t mostly responsible for their own misfortunes?
Formerly ChickenTikka - Member of the Order of the Righteous Rusty Hacksaw
Every time I see a thread like this it just sounds like a bunch of white guys bitching about their ex-girlfriends. We get it dudes, it didn’t work out. Now get over it, date an Asian if need be, move to Asia if need be, just please stop whining that you can’t find a good white chick. Maybe there is a reason for that? I think it was CT that said “It turns out that there is an Asian chick for every socially inept but otherwise successful white guy”. This is a CFA forum, go date the Asians. You don’t have to rationalize it.
“Some people make shoes. Some people make houses. We make money and people are willing pay us a lot to make money for them.”
I don’t get the blind love for Asian chicks. I’ve dated quite a few and find them to be pretty timid and insecure. Any white dudes want to swtich bodies with me? It’s a win win situation.
I don’t get the blind love for Asian chicks. I’ve dated quite a few and find them to be pretty timid and insecure. Any white dudes want to swtich bodies with me? It’s a win win situation.
This is why I decided to stop dating asian women, even though I am most attracted to them.
I honestly think I am going to sector rotate into dating black women and white girls as they seem pretty undervalued, especially on this board, lol!
I don’t get the blind love for Asian chicks. I’ve dated quite a few and find them to be pretty timid and insecure. Any white dudes want to swtich bodies with me? It’s a win win situation.
No thanks, I don’t need a four inch penis.
Formerly ChickenTikka - Member of the Order of the Righteous Rusty Hacksaw
Studying With
Racist.
Formerly ChickenTikka - Member of the Order of the Righteous Rusty Hacksaw
sherbeer’s example might illustrate reversion towards the mean. For example, one possible explanation is that all moms in her lineage are Tiger Moms. However, some children resist the effects of Tiger Mothering. Hence, sherbeer is not an “overachiever”, as she describes. However, she then falls into the same familial pattern that makes her child an overachiever.
In addition, the definition of “overachiever” is subject to interpretation. When sherbeer says that she is not an overachiever, what is she using as a comparison?
“I’m a CPA! I got money b***h!”
those statistical trends are shaped by social forces that will change inevitably….relying on them or using them as a guide is a sure way to mislead yourself…..
Many stereotypes are based on some degree of truth. One of the problems of Asian stereotyping, is that it is often perpetuated by new immigrants, which is growing faster than the local Asian (American) population. The Tiger Mom mentality is something that is popular in Asian countries due to the very structured school system they have there (national exams, clear cut best colleges, etc.). While many multi-generational Asian Americans will realize that the Tiger Mom way of teaching kids is sub-optimal in the US/Canada, all the recent immigrants will keep following it and make it the “common” perception of Asian parenting. That being said, I cannot imagine the bullshit a multi-generational Mexican-American family has to go through…
Yes - I agree that immigration is very important in determining culture, and that some cultural characteristics might fade once immigrant families have been in the new country for a while. However, this does not mean that statistics will mean revert completely once immigration has slowed. Take African Americans for instance. Many black people are stuck in a cycle of poverty that results in low academic achievement, low income, etc. It’s hard to say how long this will last, or if this will just continue forever - social trends are difficult to change, despite the best efforts of individuals within the population.
Or take Jewish people, for instance. Like Asians, Jewish people are statistically and stereotypically associated with high income and academic achievement. However, few Jewish people in the US are new immigrants. They have just been caught up in social and cultural trends that have perpetuated over many generations.
The other argument, of course, is whether these trends are a product of culture and ethnicity, or general socioeconomic status. However, in either case, it’s hard to say that the trends are not significant, or that they cannot persist for a very long time (if not indefinitely).
“I’m a CPA! I got money b***h!”
According to US Census Bureau, US citizens of Asian descent do indeed have a higher median household income than other races. They also have a higher poverty rate than non-Hispanic whites though.
You can fondle the cube, but it will not respond.
Part of the large black population stuck in low income, low academics I would say is due to parenting. A black person I knew once told me her parents gave her only 1 goal in life all throughout high school: don’t get pregnant.
Seriously. They didn’t say she needed to work hard, or do well in school, and she did whatever she wanted.
Few kids at that young age will discover for themselves the real need to work hard at something, unless you implant the desire or persuade them in some way, or you give them a good environment that fosters hard work to success. So, if the parent sucks and doesn’t give a damn, then the kid usually will be similar
Hope. It is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and greatest weakness.
Hmm. I suspect that the poverty rate is due to immigrants. One side of my extended family, for instance, consists of Asian immigrants who got to the US under some kind of family-related visa. In general, they were not college educated, barely spoke English, were not used to high standards of living, etc. Their children, however, are very successful and earn much more money than the median US person - presumably an effect of Tiger parenting. This illustrates both the low end and high end of income, as your data suggests.
“I’m a CPA! I got money b***h!”
I have no data to support this, but I would suspect that more recent Asian immigrants would tend toward the higher income levels as they likely represent the cream of the crop. I’m under the impression that there aren’t all that many poor, uneducated Asians emmigrating to the US these days. There are obviously some exceptions, but I would think that the majority of Asian immigrants in the past 20 years have come here for a college education and stayed, or came here with advanced degrees already in-hand.
You can fondle the cube, but it will not respond.
Some quick internet research tells me that new Asian immigrants are have a poverty rate of about 12.5%, which is lower than the poverty rate of non-Asian immigrants. So you appear to be correct that new Asian immigrants are generally not poor.
However, other research shows that poverty among US Asians is decreasing compared to poverty among non-Asians. In other words, although US Asians still have a higher poverty rate than US white people, over time, the Asians are becoming less poor. Eventually, it is possible that the US Asian poverty rate will drop below the poverty rate for US whites.
What this tells me is that old Asian immigrants, for instance Vietnamese boat people or other immigrants from 20-40 years ago, were poor. This contributed to a high initial poverty rate among US Asians. However, new Asian immigrants are well educated and rich, as are the children of the old immigrants. Thus, poverty is declining among US Asians as the original poor immigrants are replaced by younger, richer Asians.
“I’m a CPA! I got money b***h!”
I’m inclined to agree with you ohai. Another important topic of our times settled on AF!
You can fondle the cube, but it will not respond.
I’m friends with a number of successful Asians and it’s clear to me that they have a better way to manage early education than any other ethnic group, so at least I’m copying to the best of my ability the Asian way of running things with my two kids. I think there are some differences among Chinese, Korean, and Indian people, but every nationality has valuable concepts. I doubt my wife will be able to replicate the discipline of a real Asian tiger mom, but as parents if we manage to make sure our kids are totally comfortable with Math from early ages and grow their knowledge from there, and later they can read sh!t, understand it and connect two reasonable ideas together, that would be a good start.
Fortunately on average we Hispanics are dumb as a rock according to every standardized measure, so I wouldn’t be surprised at all if the Hispanic card will continue to be as strong as it is now when it comes to admissions into top programs by the time my kids go to college. If they can put Asian-like numbers that should be enough. I agree it’s unfair, but I don’t make the rules.
The topic also raises the question: what about stupid Asian children? Not everyone can be smart enough to be brilliant in school regardless of his or her parents’ efforts. So, do Asian parents just give up on dumb kids after a while?
Studying With
Gunning hard for the Shwesser Water Bottle I see, huh Frank ?
no kid is really dumb. but you use it or loose it. the same with brains. you either use and train it or stay lazy and dumb. so how the seed will grow depends on the soil it falls into. eg parenting. for a part.
just my opinion. I don’t think my kid (half Chinese, half white) is smarter than any other kid.
who are you and what are you talking about?
Studying With
I think it’s gonna be increasingly difficult to benefit from affirmative action being Hispanic. There are now more puerto ricans in the US than in Puerto Rico for example. Hispanics won’t be considered a minority in 20 years.
I could already see is happening 10 years ago at my university as Black professors and deans seemed to openly clash with the Latino professors and deans over who got the funding and financial aid.
To me this George Zimmerman thing is the real death knell for Hispanic minority advantage in the admissions process. Black interest groups and liberal groups alike are both doing their damnedest to include this person amongst joe white guy the same way Italians and the Irish were the last century.
The Irish are one of the most persecuted people in history, yet nobody cries for them anymore.
Formerly ChickenTikka - Member of the Order of the Righteous Rusty Hacksaw
how are the Irish most persecuted? i thought it was the Jewish people….
hey us irish guys are in alot of ways responsible for our own misfortunes, we just a bunch of moody, violent, alcoholics. However it seems everyone loves us now!
Studying With
I don’t love the Irish. I rue the day they let your kind into my university and country clubs. I miss the old adage, “Irish need not apply.” Did you know that when the CFA program started, 50 years ago tomorrow,you couldn’t get a charter if you were Irish? Ben Graham hated the Irish, especially those from beyond the Pale.
If you think about it carefully, what minority group isn’t mostly responsible for their own misfortunes?
Formerly ChickenTikka - Member of the Order of the Righteous Rusty Hacksaw
asians, blacks….mexicans…..everybody but the whites actually……
Studying With
Posting a dozen one-line comments in the same thread = Pursuing AF Rewards ?
i reckon you take L2 again…..
Studying With
On the Asian vs. White Girl discussion.
Every time I see a thread like this it just sounds like a bunch of white guys bitching about their ex-girlfriends. We get it dudes, it didn’t work out. Now get over it, date an Asian if need be, move to Asia if need be, just please stop whining that you can’t find a good white chick. Maybe there is a reason for that? I think it was CT that said “It turns out that there is an Asian chick for every socially inept but otherwise successful white guy”. This is a CFA forum, go date the Asians. You don’t have to rationalize it.
“Some people make shoes. Some people make houses. We make money and people are willing pay us a lot to make money for them.”
Not a fan of white chicks, far too many feel they have a right to everything.
Hope. It is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and greatest weakness.
asian chicks are easier for you lames…..
Studying With
I don’t get the blind love for Asian chicks. I’ve dated quite a few and find them to be pretty timid and insecure. Any white dudes want to swtich bodies with me? It’s a win win situation.
NO EXCUSES
Critique my resume: http://www.razume.com/documents/27593
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This is why I decided to stop dating asian women, even though I am most attracted to them.
I honestly think I am going to sector rotate into dating black women and white girls as they seem pretty undervalued, especially on this board, lol!
Studying With
No thanks, I don’t need a four inch penis.
Formerly ChickenTikka - Member of the Order of the Righteous Rusty Hacksaw
not undervalued, just unaffordable to those on this board………
I don’t get it either, the white guy I have dated was very obsessive, which scared me off.
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