What am I doing wrong?

Water Cooler Careers
#1

Hi everyone,

Given prior helpful advice, thought I’d reach out with yet another dilemma. I feel like I’m doing everything that I’m supposed to for a job search - networking, online apps, reaching out to recruiters/alumni, yet, after a good few months, not a single offer. The two most consistent feedbacks:

1.) “You’re great, but we’re currently not hiring. We’ll keep you in mind if something opens up.” - This is mostly via networking interviews.

2.) “You have a great resume, and while we value your prof experience/CFA charterholder status, you don’t have direct experience so we’re moving forward with other candidates.” - This is mostly after initial phone screenings/1st round interviews from online apps.

I understand response #1 - everyone is focused on wrapping up YE rather than adding to their headcount, but #2, how do you deal with that? For example, I’d say I’ve applied to atleast 100 jobs online, and of the <10% that got back to me, that was their response. Heck, even recruiters aren’t hitting me up. The only recruiter that I exchanged more than 2 emails with was more focused on getting me to “meet the right people” vs. actual job interviews, in which case, their response was #1.

I’m in private equity middle/back office role and want to leverage the CFA to move more towards an investing/asset mgmt role. I understand the employers perspective, but seriously, how do I get experience unless someone is willing to give me a chance?! Despite the competitiveness (which comes w/Finance overall), I feel like I really understand PE and can use my prior experience to succeed at my desired role, but b/c I didn’t directly do this before, I’m shot down completely. Thankfully I’m in a better state of mind than a few months ago when I first had that convo w/my manager and they’ve been pretty nice accomodating my schedule, but I hate going in everyday knowing they’ve asked me to leave. I know if I apply to a similar roles as my current role, things may move faster, but then what’s the point of doing the CFA. I think now is the best time to leverage my CFA charter and push for the job I want rather than take anything and then end up being in a similar position a few yrs later. So, while it may result in unempl (hopefully s/t), I’m willing to take that risk to pursue this front office role, but wanted to see if anyone had any suggestions? Thoughts? I did make it past 2nd round interviews for two firms, but I knew they weren’t a good fit and turned them down. One an FP&A role and another an investor relations analyst w/no exposure to clients - essentially a small shop that needed someone to do manual responses while they established their automated systems. No regret in turning them down, but just FYI. Thanks in advance.

#2

Well #1 makes total sense right? as you say those are “networking interviews”, so by the nature of that, there’s no job offer directly you are gunning for

#2 I feel your pain, but this is exactly why i tell people experience will always >>> everything. doesn’t matter MBA or CFA. you have to keep fighting, keep proactively reaching people, do work on the side. Are your sights too high? PE is an elite club, they love investment banking exp + MBA. maybe set your sights lower to otehr front office jobs?

#3

Thanks Itera - I guess sometimes you have to make a mistake to truly learn a lesson, but in my case, it isn’t pursuing CFA vs. internal opportunities; more so waiting too long to put the pieces together that I was reaching a dead end in my current position and shouldn’t have been so scared/worrying about pursuing other opportunities earlier on…I wanted to believe that hard work and a pleasant personality was sufficient - clearly not. Lesson learned for next time.

I really don’t want to go back and do an MBA (unless God forbid we’re in late 2016 and situation hasn’t changed). I’ve spent most of my life studying and I’m starting to finally see that while that’s good, relationships/networking are MUCH better so now it’s all about leveraging what I got to build relationships.

What other types of roles would you suggest? I agree that PE is an elite club, but again, what’s the point of working so hard and doing the CFA, if I can’t go after what I truly want (or think I want at this point)?

#4

You’ve applied to 100 jobs? Try 1000 and go from there.

#5

How much semi-direct experience do you have for these jobs you’ve applied for?

#6

to be totally fair, the CFA wasn’t designed specifically for PE, but yes i hear what you are saying. I’d say even tangential experience like IB will be viewed quite favorably as comparable experience to PE . are you reaching out to smaller shops? they tend to be much more willing vs the big banks to take a chance on non-traditional candidates. you may indeed have to reach out to 100+ more. Just remember you only need to win once. shoot many times, hope to land 1

#7

I was recently networking with an alumni from my school and asking how he broke int othe buy side from SS ER and he mentioned that he emailed resumes & sample research/made calls to well over >100 shops, heard back from like 6, interviewed at 3, got 1 offer. Its a numbers game, and this was from someone with relevant experience.

I agree with itera, you really are looking for the golden goose, and best of luck to you in finding it, but I think you need at least a stepping stone in there. I think you should be looking for a position where you can at least build toward PE, and you should have known going in that the CFA wasnt going to put you in a prime spot for a PE role. The CFA is great for what it is, but it isnt a ticket to one of the most coveted jobs on the street

#8

Well - almost done with my first official day being unemployed, and while I’m sure in a week I’ll be bored out of my mind, it’s nice to just be done with that environment and focus on progressing forward, moving the car from “neutral” to “drive” so to speak.

Job search will only be more difficult in the next few weeks since everyone is now gearing up to close books for YE vs. getting new activity, and the holidays sure won’t help,but plan to spend the next 2.5 weeks really networking with anyone and everyone. Then, just take Christmas & NY off - after the year I’ve had, this is well overdue. Will pick up networking/job search very actively again the first week of Jan. Thankfully I get 3 months severance.

Re: the comment on applying for 1000s of jobs - easier said than done. I think if you’re fresh out of college or really young, then yes, apply for any and everything. But for someone who has been in the industry for almost 10 yrs, I have to focus my time/energy networking and applying for things that I qualify for and will help me progress - not take me back 5 yrs. I mean a 31 yr old analyst when job description is clearly focused on a recent grad seems like a waste of time to even pursue, no? Maybe if I’m still unemployed in Feb I’ll reconsider, but for now, I have a good focus of what I want to do - just need someone to take a risk and give me that chance!

Anyway, I’m sorry I keep disappearing, but appreciate all the advice & feedback. Thank you all.

#9

Feel your pain, bro. I stayed in back office ops at a BB for 6 years (which was about 5.5 years too long) due to personal reasons I won’t really get into, and I’m starting to see that that really has set me back from an experience perspective. I fortunately was able to move into product recently which is light years better in terms of quailty of life so that’s good but making the leap into investment/portfolio management (which I ultimately would like to do) is going to be a bear and I know it. While I’ve had some downtime in between L2 and L3 I’ve put feelers out there for anything more front office related and it’s… not going well. I haven’t gone anywhere near 100% at it because to be honest my current gig is pretty great and I wanted to finish L3 unless an amazing opportunity presented itself and it naturally hasn’t.

I’m not even considering PE at this point. I don’t know what city you live in but here in Boston unless you basically came from IB and have a top 2-3 MBA they aren’t even looking at you. At least the better shops. I’d be lucky to be a janitor there.

Not trying to be a debbie downer here, but from the limited experience i’ve had looking around I think gaining the humility that comes with looking for competitive finance jobs has been valuable in itself. Cold submitting resumes in my opinion seems like a waste of time, at least for me, because I’m just simply not as qualified as other people looking for the same jobs. Currently I’ve just been trying to leverage anything I can with the limited connections I have to front office finance jobs and trying to establish more. Because that’s the only way I see someone taking a chance on me… getting the CFA or my ops/product experience certainly won’t do it.

#10

You’re in boston?..you should meet up with me and supyogov…were in financial district.

#11

Yes sir. I am right by the State House/Gov’t Center area. I’ll shoot you a message.

#12

Yeah, man, it’s tough. I was able to break into PE without IB experience (or really any modeling experience, for that matter). I was lucky. I would not advise anyone to take my path if you’re hoping to break into PE.

Outside of IB, other possible avenues into PE include management consulting (typically McKinsey, Bain, BCG, etc.) or corporate development at a legit company. There are a few other obscure routes one could take, but IB, management consulting, or corporate development are probably the most common, with IB obviously leading the pack.

What I believe allowed me to make the jump:

  1. Networking/personality (you will most likely have to be referred for the position)
  2. CFA (shows that you have at least a basic knowledge of finance, but maybe more importantly, shows that you’re willing to put in the time and effort to learn)
  3. Experience (worked on some buyside operational due diligence projects; firm follows a niche investing strategy, and I had experience that industry)
  4. Standardized test scores (pretty lame, but shows that you have the ability to pick up new concepts quickly)

I’d recommend trying to break into IB first (or some other role that will give you some transactional experience). IB (or Big 4 valuations, Big 4 transaction services, etc.) would be more a realistic jump rather than going straight to PE. If you’re not successful there, go back to school to get your MBA. Right now is the perfect time to apply. I’d start getting my applications in order now (or start studying for the GMAT, if you haven’t already taken it) while continuing to apply for jobs in the meantime. If you’re able to land a job, great. If not, you have the MBA fall back on.

#13

I think talking to an experienced professional business analyst can be a great help as they can tell you about some new techniques and their field experiences.