Odds of Getting into a top MFin Program

Hi all, I was wondering if anyone had opinions on my odds of getting into a top Masters in Finance program. Right now I’m looking at MIT’s MFin and LSE’s Finance & Economics programs. Any advice is appreciated. Profile - 2.5 years xp on an FO short term interest rate desk in Toronto (at one of RBC/TD/BAML), am about to get my first promotion after running my own (tight) risk for the past ~1.5yrs. - 3.55 gpa in ugrad econ 3.84 in ugrad management/commerce at a top canadian school (seperate degrees) (I had <50 in a mathematical finance course in first year, repeated a few courses from semester at 3.7’s+). Killed my 3rd and 4th year (90 avg). - Recommendation letters from a) program director my school’s MSF program (got top mark in one of his courses, audited one of his masters courses), and b) a director level trader I work with (head of his desk) - 730 GMAT - Took Real Analysis 1 and a Stochastic Calc course through night classes (3.7+ in both) after graduation - Took LSE’s upper year derivatives course through its summer program, got an A - Passed CFA level 3 this past June - Regularly use VBA, Python, and SQL in my job - Founded an S&T club at my university that now has ~150 members - Canadian and European citizenship While I’ve always wanted to do a masters degree, my longterm goal is either to move into a rates/fx derivatives trading role on the sell side or a macro fund on the buyside. My current desk though would definitely take me back which limits my downside.

You are super overqualified for those programs, I’d do a MBA program instead if cost isn’t a consideration (doesn’t sound like it if you are considering MIT’s MFIN as it costs around 100k plus all in). Most kids in those programs are fresh 0-1 year out of school who didn’t get the ideal role coming out of undergraduate. Why not do a MBA at a top USA program or at LBS? You are way more likely to get placed at a buy-side firm coming from a top MBA program than any Master’s of Finance program in either the UK or the US, looking at placement information will confirm this. Just my 2 cents.

Four considerations why I’m looking at doing an Mfin now vs an MBA 2-3 years down the line: A) Most MFin’s have a more quantitative focus than MBA’s. I really don’t want to have to go through fluffy marketing/ops/leadership courses, much rather be focusing on finance w/ more math/programming than you’d get in an MBA.

B) I want to get into a top-tier program, so there’s some optionality checking if I get into MIT’s MFin now, vs applying later and risk not getting a top program. Anything below something “prestigious” probably has too high an opportunity cost.

C) Not 100% sure whether this is common, but I don’t want to get stuck as a canadian sell-side trader. I feel that I’m at the stage where I know enough to somewhat intelligently interview w/ buyside firms, but am still mouldable to not get pigeonholed in the product group I’m in now. (I’ve heard mixed things on MBA’s liking sr associate/vp level traders).

D) Volcker at most of the banks here just kicked in recently, so exiting now might make sense if buy-side firms stop looking at sell-side traders for recruiting. Any thoughts are appreciated.

Who hires out of MS Finance programs anyway? I’m not sure if I have met such a graduate in my whole career.

Anyway, my opinion is also that an MBA would be a better investment. However, you should obviously examine the career placement numbers of any program that you would apply for.

Alternatively, you could just apply for buy side or other jobs without getting more education. It’s not really clear that something like a MS Finance would make you more recruitable, to be honest.

try for top 5 mba in the US. your resume looks solid mang

Like Kluad mentioned, Mfin is for people with 0-1 work exp. If you compare class profile vs an MBA, you’ll see your profile matches more closely with that of an MBA. Average work exp is usually around 4-5 years, but the number of people getting in with 3years of exp is increasing (is the case for HBS, and declining exp is general trend). Just wanted to point out that applying for an MBA isn’t really few more years down the line - you can still apply for round 3 or round 1 for 2017 intake.

Anyway, you should talk to MIT if you’re serious about applying. I went to their Finance Symposium earlier this year and they’re willing to talk anyone who wants to consider the program.

As for your first concern, many MBAs offer flexible currculum. Take a look at Chicago or even Sloan. I think you have a competitive profile for top schools. I had heard trading positions are not really well regarded by MBAs, but at a recent info session at Sloan one of the current students worked at Pimco as a BDO - trader has to be more competitive for MBAs, so there’s my 2 cents.

I agree with what’s been posted above. The MFIN won’t really add enough value to make it worthwhile so that leaves the MBA in terms of higher education. However, you want to be a trader long term; but the industry is shrinking and most traders don’t care for MBA graduates anyway, so I don’t think doing an MBA is going to add much value to your current path.

As you only get to do a master’s once, I would suggest trying to land that next trading position via other means. The strength of the bschool comes from the network you gain and the recruitment on campus. S&T will pick up MBA grads but that is trending down from what I’ve seen. Keep that card in your pocket for when you decide you’ve had enough of trading.

Don’t do it. MFINs are barely worth the paper the diploma is printed on. I should know. I have one. It was desperate maneuver due to graduating in the heart of the great recession and ~15% (maybe) of my graduating class was gainfully employed in a job remotely related to the degree within 3 months of our graduation, and truthfully most of those jobs would have been achievable with going to a targeted undergrad business school (entry level IB/ER positions). I wasn’t one of them.

Thankfully I recovered from a crappy start to my career and now hopefully can use this to avoid having to get an MBA at some point.

You should try to get a transfer to the NYC office of your bank (if you have one) and go from there. Most employers don’t know or care WTF an MFIN is. Yet even the subset of morons in the school’s MBA program got better jobs than the smarter MFINs, likely due to degree recognition.

You can consider the Princeton two year program, that is more related to trading and have 100% placement rate at either trading desks or related roles. In the US only MFins worth doing are the MIT one and Princeton one, the caveat with the MIT program is that it is highly catered to internationals and have huge classes.

If you are considering quant finance degrees (e.g. MIT’s MFin), sounds like you’d also consider things like NYU’s Masters in Mathematical Finance, Columbias MFE, etc. no? Or at least that sounds like the kind of career path you want. In any case, I’d say your chances for MIT’s program are not terrible but probably right at the average line…you’re competing against those same computer science, math, physicists, CFA L3, 750 GMAT folks applying to MFE programs. As mentioned, your profile is not bad for a top MBA though and in all honesty probably more recruitable.

Also, to be more competitve, your math should include a full sequence of real analysis, ordinary and partial diff eq, numerical analysis, and probability theory. I took LSE’s upper derivs course as well…hard and interesting (got a B) but I wouldnt say its a resume booster…most people dont know how hard it is so saying you got a good grade is out of perspective for them. Your programming is useful but should include C++. Also, are you looking to stay working in Canada or work in the US or Europe?

All in all, you have a shot at MIT…but more like a 50/50 and really highly dependent on the rest of your application. What did you get on the quant of 730? It is unofficial…but word is MIT places more weight than normal on that score.

Thanks all, I will likely wait another year and try fishing for an M7 MBA. I don’t have quite enough math to pursue an MFE or Princeton’s Mfin, which was why I was considering MIT’s MFin which doesn’t have as mathy requirements. If I end up getting into MIT i’ll spend sometime talking to grads about recruiting.