Annuity in an IRA

If you take money out of a variable annuity before 59.5, but leave it in the IRA, are you still docked the 10% early withdrawal penalty by the friendly government? And for you insurance experts, can money from the free withdrawal provisions be 1035ed for contracts outside of an IRA?

How annuities continue to end up in IRAs is so beyond me…oh wait, now I remember. The salesman gets up to a 10% commission and a 1% residual for the life of the contract. I was reviewing someone’s investment portfolio for free the other day. Dude is worth 5 mil or so. He was so excited to tell me about this “product” he bought that gets the upside of THE market and no downside risk. He didn’t even know it was an annuity and I ruined his weekend. But I will save him a lot of money going forward. I thought it is was the 1970s. He also was being charged 4% for a round trip on a stock. Makes my stomach hurt.

The answer to both questions is no. You can leave an IRA annuity at any time and move it to an IRA without tax penalties, just be careful of annuity surrender fees. Your second question is unclear, but I’m assuming you are asking about a 1035 from an IRA annuity to a non-IRA annuity.

Bleh, like holding an umbrella while wearing a raincoat.

No. They money has not been distributed from the IRA, so there is no penalty.

Like noted before, the question isn’t very clear. But the bottom line is–it’s either distributed from the IRA or it’s not. That’s what will decide whether or not it’s taxable. If you transfer from one annuity inside an IRA to another annuity inside the IRA, then it’s not a distribution and it’s not taxable.

Just so ya know–if you transfer from one annuity to another, you better have a really good reason. That’s low-hanging fruit for FINRA regulators.

Thank for the responses. And sorry for the ambiguity. But I’ll probably just create more.

My understanding is that deferred variable annuities in general, outside of an IRA, have a 10% withdrawal tax prior to 59.5. IRAs also have a 10% penalty. From what I can gather from the comments, money can flow out of an IRA annuity without a 10% early withdrawal penalty as long as it stays in an IRA. I was thinking there could be a double whammy, 10% for leaving the annuity and another 10% if the money was taken out of the tax-deferred vehicle. Sounds ridiculous, but it would not have surprised me. Just talking about federal taxes here. Surrender charges are a different animal.

So, if you have an IRA variable annuity and you take advantage of a 10% free withdrawal provision of a specific annuity prior to 59.5 and roll those funds into a traditional IRA, there is no tax on the transfer???

Okay, and now, not talking about IRAs at all. 1035 exchanges allow you to switch from one annuity, not in an IRA, to another, not in an IRA, tax free. Surrender charges still apply. My question is can funds from a free withdrawal provision be put in another annuity without triggering a 10% early withdrawal penalty?

The broader question is how can the damage be minimized if a young person purchased a deferred variable annuity with total annual fees of 3.2% within an IRA? And also if the annuity was purchased outside of an IRA? One would hope to avoid penalties and surrender charges, but depending on time frame, the investor could end up better off by paying some penalties and charges. There are similar annuities available that have total fees that are less than 1%.

And as far as FINRA, I would expect a thank you letter. I would not be a party to the transactions.

^Let me answer your questions, as best I can understand them. (You might also want to check out IRS Pub 590 - Individual Retirement Arrangements, IRS Pub 575 - Pension and Annuity Income, and the instructions for IRS Form 5329 (which is where the 10% penalty is calculated and reported on the 1040.)

"Annuities in general, outside of an IRA have a 10% withdrawal tax prior to 59.5. IRAs also have a 10% penalty. Money can flow out of an IRA annuity without a 10% early withdrawal penalty as long as it stays in an IRA." These are all true statements. And if you take it out of the IRA, there is only one 10% penalty. You don’t get a penalty for the annuity and another one for the IRA.

" So if you have an IRA variable annuity and you take advantage of a 10% free withdrawal provision of a specific annuity prior to 59.5 and roll those funds into a traditional IRA, there is no tax on the transfer?" Again, there’s no tax on withdrawal from an annuity inside an IRA. Transferring money from one IRA to another IRA is not a taxable event. (Beware that you can only do one rollover every 365 days, though. But that’s a separate issue.)

"Okay, and now, not talking about IRAs at all. 1035 exchanges allow you to switch from one annuity to another, tax free. Can funds from a free withdrawal provision be put in another annuity without triggering a 10% early withdrawal penalty?" As far as I know, there is no such thing as a “free withdrawal provision” in the tax code. It may be free of fees charged by the insurance company, but for tax purposes, a withdrawal is a withdrawal, and is subject to a 10% penalty.

"I purchased an annuity with high fees inside an IRA. How can I minimize the damage?" The obvious (and incredibly un-helpful) answer is, “Don’t buy an annuity, especially inside an IRA.” But the good news is that there aren’t any tax consequences. You can still take funds out of the annuity without taking them out of the IRA and incurring any penalties. Whether it makes sense to do so is entirely dependent on the individual’s circumstances, including the annuity fees, the client’s age, the death benefits, the living benefits, etc. etc.

"I purchased an annuity with high fees OUTSIDE of an IRA. How can I minimize the damage." Short answer–you can’t. You can 1035 exchange the annuity, but you have to buy another annuity. Moreover, it has to be an actual exchange of policies. You can’t receive cash and then purchase another annuity. That would trigger a taxable event, and IRC Section 1035 would not apply. (Note however that you can do a partial annuity exchange, which might be advisable if you have an annuity that has greatly appreciated in value.)

Good news/bad news - Not all of the withdrawals from an annuity are considered to be taxable income. The return of your investment is simply a recovery of basis and isn’t subject to any type of tax (neither ordinary income tax nor 10% penalty). However, before you can withdraw any basis, you have to withdraw all of the income. (EG - Five years ago, I purchased a $50k annuity. Today, it is worth $90k. I withdraw $30k. The $30k is taxed at ordinary tax rates + the 10% penalty. I still have $50k of basis and $10k of income remaining in the annuity.)

More bad news - IRA distributions allow you take distributions prior to 59.5 if you have medical payments, buying a house, or higher educatio expenses. This is not true with annuity payments. The only ways to get out of the early withdrawal penalty are 1.) Death, 2.) Total disability, or 3.) Annuitization.

Damn Greenie. Thanks for the detailed response. Much appreciated.

I do peruse the IRS Pubs, but I’ve learned it is best to “test” my understanding before I make myself look like an idiot. Not being 100% in the S&P 500 for the past two years has already made me look pretty silly.

Thanks again.