What pissses me off about this case is that people on either side presume to know what happened.
There is a reasonable chance that Martin attacked Zimmerman and he was protecting his own life. Based on what we know, this might have happened. If that is the case, it’s hard to blame Zimmerman for shooting him.
Conversely, there is a reasonable chance that Martin was on his knees praying to Jesus, thinking pure thoughts, when the big bad neo nazi, white (but actually latino) wanna be cop in the ku klux klan uniform murdered the teenager in cold blood. Also plausible based on what we know so far.
Depending on who you talk to you will get both of these versions of the story and people talk about it with full certainty. I think the only correct answer so far is, we need to see the facts. And by We, I mean a jury.
People like spike lee should be arrested for putting people in danger the way he did when he tweeted the wrong address to zimmerman to his fans.
Blake, I’m calling you out, since you love to go Zimmerman on me usually, how can you say he deserves a 2nd degree murder charge? Were you there? Can you say unquivocably one way or the other that Martin did not attack him? Of course you cannot. You are merely speculating.
From what we do know, someone who was pretty young, overzealous and ill equipped to handle the situation used pretty lousy judgement and f*cked up pretty badly. In hindsight he should have stayed in his car and waited for the police. I’m not sure what crime that is, it might be one, I’m just not sure what to call it. Stupidity? Still, there is nothing illegal about approaching someone. Nothing.
What happenened next is anybody’s guess and until the jury decides the public should stay out of this so that the victims and the defendent can have a fair trial based on facts and not on mob rule.
1) Was I there? What do you think? Most crimes like that don’t have witnesses. They have one witness. The killer. Prosecuters are still able to assemble evidence and convict.
2) The kid was shot from behind. This is consistent with a non-defense.
3) He’s on tape by the cops telling him to walk.
4) No you cannot walk up to someone and detain them. Yes that is illegal. We’ll see what you would do if someone walked up to your wife or girlfriend and grabbed her at night. Of course she is going to fight back.
I don’t know how FL works but in some states it is possible the jury could reject 2nd degree and accept a lesser charge such as manslaughter. It’s possible he might get 2nd degree. It’s possible he could get acquited. Anything can happen in a jury trial especially in a state as f*cked up as FL. The one thing I know for certain is you are a complete moron for referencing the KKK.
Why am I a moron for referring to the KKK? Are we children? Are we supposed to pretend that these people and their history of committing crimes against minorities do not exist? Many people suspect or believe this was a hate crime. The whole reason this is a national news story is that it is potentially a hate crime.
If the killing wasnt racially motivated then all we have is a tragedy involving one dumb irresponsible young kid killing another and really we have ourselves to blame for letting him play rent-a-cop in the first place. This sort of thing happens all of the time when you give idiots, and especially young idiots, too much authority and not enough supervision.
Blake, it must be nice to walk around with an omniscient perspective in a completely black and white world. I wish I saw everything as clearly and correctly as you do all of the time.
It’s amazing to me how easily you can jump to conclusions with absolute certainty, such as Zimmerman’s guilt or my own stupidity based on the most circumstantial pieces of evidence Reminds me of a kid in Florida who said, “Hey, that guy is wearing a hoodie ergo he must be a criminal.”
Formerly ChickenTikka - Member of the Order of the Righteous Rusty Hacksaw
On a Friday eveing, after dinner with friends, I “accidentally” bump into some guy. He was little buzzed and acted extremely violently, cursing at me. So, I cursed back and yelled at his face. He pushed me a little so I pushed him a little harder. He then, with a crazy, “raged” face come charging at me, so I shoot him. Stand your ground law at its best.
For Zimmerman, the dispatcher told him not to pursue Martin, yet he continued to follow him and got out of his SUV to confront him. I don’t know about you guys, but if I feel like the situation can get real serious and I was told to just leave the person alone, I would floor my SUV the hell outta there.
Young hispanic guy in Arizona at a taco bell walks in front of a car going through the drive through. Car nearly hits him. He mouths off to the driver, a black male, most likely because he thinks he could have been run over. Words escalate.
Hispanic guy has a relatively young looking dog on a leash which the guy in a the car interprets as a threat to his safety, even though he is in his car.
Drivers shoots the pedestrian with dog dead from inside his automobile.
God Bless America.
There’s a couple of lessons here.
1) Don’t mouth off in Red States. People have guns and can shoot you with very little pretext.
2) Don’t visit red states, but if you do, be polite. Even when people nearly kill you. If they nearly killed you, it’s not unreasonable to think they would go a little bit further to actually kill you.
3) Don’t bring a puppy to a gun fight.
Formerly ChickenTikka - Member of the Order of the Righteous Rusty Hacksaw
For Zimmerman, the dispatcher told him not to pursue Martin, yet he continued to follow him and got out of his SUV to confront him. I don’t know about you guys, but if I feel like the situation can get real serious and I was told to just leave the person alone, I would floor my SUV the hell outta there.
This is the key point IMO. I don’t see it as “standing your ground” when you ignore the 911 dispatcher’s directions to not pursue someone and do it anyway. If Martin had been in the act of harming someone and Zimmerman stepped in that would be a lot different, but no one has said Martin was doing anything other than walking down the street. If the stand your ground defense works in this case, I see no reason why people won’t be able to walk into bad neighborhoods in FL, shoot anyone who walks over to them in a threatening manner, and cite the Zimmerman case as precedent.
I, like everyone else, wish Zim had followed directions, but I’m not sure how we get to 2nd degree murder from there. Tell me where I’m wrong here, I’m curious.
He has a right to ignore the dispatcher. He has a right to approach Martin. None of this is illegal. Ill advised? Yep. Irresponsible? Yep. Stupid. Yep.
But if Martin then attacks him how can you put Zimmerman in prison for defending himself? (That Martin attacked him is merely an assumption for hypothetical purposes. I have no idea what happened, unlike Blake who know’s exactly what transpired thanks to his omiscience gained through his Masters of Science Degree).
I’ve noticed a lot of lawyers mouthing off on the news saying they think this thing won’t even go to trial based on the evidence the prosecution has presented. They are calling this appeasement in order to quell Black communities so that they feel at least somewhat like the case is being take seriously.
That makes sense to me.
Formerly ChickenTikka - Member of the Order of the Righteous Rusty Hacksaw
This is the key point IMO. I don’t see it as “standing your ground” when you ignore the 911 dispatcher’s directions to not pursue someone and do it anyway. If Martin had been in the act of harming someone and Zimmerman stepped in that would be a lot different, but no one has said Martin was doing anything other than walking down the street. If the stand your ground defense works in this case, I see no reason why people won’t be able to walk into bad neighborhoods in FL, shoot anyone who walks over to them in a threatening manner, and cite the Zimmerman case as precedent.
That’s exactly my point and what I’m worried about.
1) Was I there? What do you think? Most crimes like that don’t have witnesses. They have one witness. The killer. Prosecuters are still able to assemble evidence and convict.
2) The kid was shot from behind. This is consistent with a non-defense.
3) He’s on tape by the cops telling him to walk.
4) No you cannot walk up to someone and detain them. Yes that is illegal. We’ll see what you would do if someone walked up to your wife or girlfriend and grabbed her at night. Of course she is going to fight back.
I don’t know how FL works but in some states it is possible the jury could reject 2nd degree and accept a lesser charge such as manslaughter. It’s possible he might get 2nd degree. It’s possible he could get acquited. Anything can happen in a jury trial especially in a state as f*cked up as FL. The one thing I know for certain is you are a complete moron for referencing the KKK.
~~~~~Live. Laugh. Love.~~~~~
Studying With
Why am I a moron for referring to the KKK? Are we children? Are we supposed to pretend that these people and their history of committing crimes against minorities do not exist? Many people suspect or believe this was a hate crime. The whole reason this is a national news story is that it is potentially a hate crime.
If the killing wasnt racially motivated then all we have is a tragedy involving one dumb irresponsible young kid killing another and really we have ourselves to blame for letting him play rent-a-cop in the first place. This sort of thing happens all of the time when you give idiots, and especially young idiots, too much authority and not enough supervision.
Blake, it must be nice to walk around with an omniscient perspective in a completely black and white world. I wish I saw everything as clearly and correctly as you do all of the time.
It’s amazing to me how easily you can jump to conclusions with absolute certainty, such as Zimmerman’s guilt or my own stupidity based on the most circumstantial pieces of evidence Reminds me of a kid in Florida who said, “Hey, that guy is wearing a hoodie ergo he must be a criminal.”
Formerly ChickenTikka - Member of the Order of the Righteous Rusty Hacksaw
On a Friday eveing, after dinner with friends, I “accidentally” bump into some guy. He was little buzzed and acted extremely violently, cursing at me. So, I cursed back and yelled at his face. He pushed me a little so I pushed him a little harder. He then, with a crazy, “raged” face come charging at me, so I shoot him. Stand your ground law at its best.
For Zimmerman, the dispatcher told him not to pursue Martin, yet he continued to follow him and got out of his SUV to confront him. I don’t know about you guys, but if I feel like the situation can get real serious and I was told to just leave the person alone, I would floor my SUV the hell outta there.
Studying With
I like this story: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDxPDgoJB6E&feature=relmfu
Highlights:
Young hispanic guy in Arizona at a taco bell walks in front of a car going through the drive through. Car nearly hits him. He mouths off to the driver, a black male, most likely because he thinks he could have been run over. Words escalate.
Hispanic guy has a relatively young looking dog on a leash which the guy in a the car interprets as a threat to his safety, even though he is in his car.
Drivers shoots the pedestrian with dog dead from inside his automobile.
God Bless America.
There’s a couple of lessons here.
1) Don’t mouth off in Red States. People have guns and can shoot you with very little pretext.
2) Don’t visit red states, but if you do, be polite. Even when people nearly kill you. If they nearly killed you, it’s not unreasonable to think they would go a little bit further to actually kill you.
3) Don’t bring a puppy to a gun fight.
Formerly ChickenTikka - Member of the Order of the Righteous Rusty Hacksaw
This is the key point IMO. I don’t see it as “standing your ground” when you ignore the 911 dispatcher’s directions to not pursue someone and do it anyway. If Martin had been in the act of harming someone and Zimmerman stepped in that would be a lot different, but no one has said Martin was doing anything other than walking down the street. If the stand your ground defense works in this case, I see no reason why people won’t be able to walk into bad neighborhoods in FL, shoot anyone who walks over to them in a threatening manner, and cite the Zimmerman case as precedent.
You can fondle the cube, but it will not respond.
Studying With
I, like everyone else, wish Zim had followed directions, but I’m not sure how we get to 2nd degree murder from there. Tell me where I’m wrong here, I’m curious.
He has a right to ignore the dispatcher. He has a right to approach Martin. None of this is illegal. Ill advised? Yep. Irresponsible? Yep. Stupid. Yep.
But if Martin then attacks him how can you put Zimmerman in prison for defending himself? (That Martin attacked him is merely an assumption for hypothetical purposes. I have no idea what happened, unlike Blake who know’s exactly what transpired thanks to his omiscience gained through his Masters of Science Degree).
I’ve noticed a lot of lawyers mouthing off on the news saying they think this thing won’t even go to trial based on the evidence the prosecution has presented. They are calling this appeasement in order to quell Black communities so that they feel at least somewhat like the case is being take seriously.
That makes sense to me.
Formerly ChickenTikka - Member of the Order of the Righteous Rusty Hacksaw
That’s exactly my point and what I’m worried about.
Pages