Dude 500K for a degree? Are we talking USD? If I had 500K to spend on a fake degree I wouldnt have the need for a fake degree. Most I would spend is $150 just because I couldnt fool anybody. I dont look/act/talk like the havard/standford type.
In fact, most people probably spend more than $500k on such MBAs once you consider opportunity cost.
True but most people get loans, govt,employer to help pay for the cost of MBA. Then again in your parrel universe they may also pay for the fake degrees.
" CFAvsMBA is the brah'da, that plays the role of another brah'da, that is a brah'da"
Most people at Harvard Business School pay a majority of the cost by themselves. Loans do not offset costs - you have to pay those back. Ultimately, most of these people decide that the high initial cost will be offset by higher future income.
My point was those options ( loans, govt subsidies, employer) are not available to pay for fake degrees. And I doubt that “most” people at havard have 500K cash to pay for tutuion and fees. I think its safe to say that your local “fake degree” slanger would not put you on a payment plan. I could pull up bunch of studies showing Harvard/Yale students with a shit load of debt but I dont have the time.
" CFAvsMBA is the brah'da, that plays the role of another brah'da, that is a brah'da"
I don’t understand what you are saying. Incurring $500k of debt is ultimately the same as paying $500k in cash. I also never said Harvard Business School students pay $500k in cash. I said that they incur $500k in costs, which include cash, lost income, and loans to be paid off in the future.
I also don’t understand what you are saying about government loans or employer aid, or why it is relevant. As I explained earlier, $500k is the cost that I would pay to get a (real) business school degree from Harvard. Evidently, most students at these schools do incur about this much in initial cost.
I think Asian cultures value the group more than the individual whereas Western cultures value the individual more than the group… or at least thats what my management class told me.
As racist as it may sound, Asians cheat way more than your average white bread male. Its like their standards are so high, and failure is so shameful, that its perfectly acceptable to break rules so long as you pass.
During level 2 in the LA test center, I saw a Chinese guy sitting in his car at break, chatting on his cell phone, writing down stuff that was going to be on the afternoon exam. I was parked next to him and was basically standing over him without him seeing me, but when he did he looked like he was about to cry. I was so focused on my own test taking that I never did anything, but part of me wishes I would have turned him in. CFA is such a merit thing, I don’t want people who don’t deserve it to have it.
I don’t understand what you are saying. Incurring $500k of debt is ultimately the same as paying $500k in cash. I also never said Harvard Business School students pay $500k in cash. I said that they incur $500k in costs, which include cash, lost income, and loans to be paid off in the future.
I also don’t understand what you are saying about government loans or employer aid, or why it is relevant. As I explained earlier, $500k is the cost that I would pay to get a (real) business school degree from Harvard. Evidently, most students at these schools do incur about this much in initial cost.
$500k seems a bit high. Tuition, fees, books, etc. will run you $63,288 per year according to HBS website, so $126,576 for two years. $500k would assume $373,424 in opportunity cost, or $186,712 per year. Median first year compensation for HBS grads in 2011 was $140,000, so I don’t think people with an average salary of $187k are going to HBS so that they can make $140k coming out. The data must be out there somewhere (I can’t find it quickly), but I would think HBS students are probably making around $100k when they enter.
Maybe it is job specific. I would wager that the finance people earn more than others, both before and after business school. 1st year bank associates after business school can probably get $250-$300k. For normal 2y analysts entering business school, previous compensation would have been about $150k (?). Plus, there is income growth in post-analyst years, assuming you can get a job without business school. But you are right - most people are not in finance and probably make less money.
There is also some prestige and perceived security effect that makes the decision not 100% economic. People might be willing to pay more than their explicit economic cost, as they might believe that the credential will make it easier to change jobs in the future (like if they get fired). Plus, the degree itself is desirable. People pay $100k for Porsches. Why not pay the same premium for a Harvard degree?
you say “cheating is just assumed to be normal …[in Asian countries]”. Do you not find anything morally reprehensible in that statement? So if cheating is normal (natural?) then the non-cheating Asians are odd, wierd and perverse? And i guess you would argue vigorously also that in the US high moral ground is normal and the cheaters dont just get caught with their pants down but are inherently (given that they live in the USA) at odds with the norm ?
Humanity isnt ready for an intercontinental beatdown ..besides we all know who would win in team USA Vs old irrelevant UK… didnt yall get yall ass handed to you by that latin country with that awesome soccer team?
" CFAvsMBA is the brah'da, that plays the role of another brah'da, that is a brah'da"
Different societies have different standards. In the US, it’s normal to weigh 250 lbs and eat triple cheeseburgers three times a week. Many Asian people would be disgusted by this. In Asia, things that might offend US people can be considered normal. I’m not being judgmental or condescending. This is just an observation. I grew up in an Asian country and observed these things first hand. A statement of fact is not reprehensible.
Furthermore, “not normal = perverse” is not the implication of anything I or anyone else has said. Mother Theresa was not normal, but she was not perverse. Not normal = not normal. Don’t put words in people’s mouths.
“And i guess you would argue vigorously also that in the US high moral ground is normal and the cheaters dont just get caught with their pants down but are inherently (given that they live in the USA) at odds with the norm ?”
Yes. Cheaters are not normal compared to US people. However, they would be normal (or at least less abnormal) in another country. The only determinant of “normal” is comparison to some population. Compared to the US population, cheaters are abnormal. Compared to an Asian population, they might be less abnormal.
no, no, no, you can have someone explain something util they are blue in the face “you” will still come out of it with what you come out of it, that’s how i am meaning “interpretation” here.
Penny, drop the PC bullshit. He (and I) are commenting on observations. Morally reprehensible?
Where do all the fake drugs and bootlegged movies come from? You didn’t go to college with non-english speaking Asians that travelled in packs and consistently cheated? I even had a friend from Seoul that explained it to me. Certain groups stick together and don’t compete with each other. The older ones were basically obligated to give all their old notes and homework to the younger crop of Koreans. “It was just a cultural thing.”
FWIW, at my college orientation (so long ago), they asked how many people cheated in high school. I saw at least 50% hands go up - this was in North Carolina. I was very surprised.
@stratman: People in Asia who make bootleg movies and fake drugs are probably not the same ones who cheat on exams. There is no connection between those two groups. Whereas in US, students are part of the population that eats triple cheeseburgers.
Quote:
The older ones were basically obligated to give all their old notes and homework to the younger crop of Koreans. “It was just a cultural thing.”
I believe that, but that in US means the younger Koreans are getting a degree at the expense of getting knowledge for themselves. Since they ARE probably the same type of people as students in Seoul, I wonder if that’s why South Korea has the highest per-capita percentage of PhDs yet proportionally less innovation? Samsung cannot be compared to Apple, for example. Or Huyndai to Honda.
All Asians cheat. To them it is seen as helping each other. This crew of rice niggas use to always sit in the back of one of my classes. They weren’t even secretive about cheating. Deez niggas would be yapping in some dialect the whole exam. The professor got wise the second time around and said, “I’m not handing out exams until the group in the back disburses throughout the room.”
A lot of assumptions in this thread. You may meet ‘Asian’ people who cheat but are you saying none of the people from other communities cheat? Are you saying that a majority of cheats/corrupt people are ‘Asians’?
Also, for the person talking about “bootlegged CDs” needs to wake up to the fact that a majority of the piracy of copyrighted audio/video material started out with the peer-to-peer networks originating from the western countries (mostly US). A lot of the financial fraud/embezzlement originates from the west but it does not mean that the American and English people are a bunch of cheats and con-men.
I am from India and while there is a lot of corruption here I haven’t heard of cheating on the CFA exams with fake passports yet. And to insinuate that requiring passports for identity proof stems out of “fake candidates” in Asia is assuming too much.
All Asians cheat. To them it is seen as helping each other. This crew of rice niggas use to always sit in the back of one of my classes. They weren’t even secretive about cheating. Deez niggas would be yapping in some dialect the whole exam. The professor got wise the second time around and said, “I’m not handing out exams until the group in the back disburses throughout the room.”
True but most people get loans, govt,employer to help pay for the cost of MBA. Then again in your parrel universe they may also pay for the fake degrees.
" CFAvsMBA is the brah'da, that plays the role of another brah'da, that is a brah'da"
Most people at Harvard Business School pay a majority of the cost by themselves. Loans do not offset costs - you have to pay those back. Ultimately, most of these people decide that the high initial cost will be offset by higher future income.
“I’m a CPA! I got money b***h!”
My point was those options ( loans, govt subsidies, employer) are not available to pay for fake degrees. And I doubt that “most” people at havard have 500K cash to pay for tutuion and fees. I think its safe to say that your local “fake degree” slanger would not put you on a payment plan. I could pull up bunch of studies showing Harvard/Yale students with a shit load of debt but I dont have the time.
" CFAvsMBA is the brah'da, that plays the role of another brah'da, that is a brah'da"
I don’t understand what you are saying. Incurring $500k of debt is ultimately the same as paying $500k in cash. I also never said Harvard Business School students pay $500k in cash. I said that they incur $500k in costs, which include cash, lost income, and loans to be paid off in the future.
I also don’t understand what you are saying about government loans or employer aid, or why it is relevant. As I explained earlier, $500k is the cost that I would pay to get a (real) business school degree from Harvard. Evidently, most students at these schools do incur about this much in initial cost.
“I’m a CPA! I got money b***h!”
You dont understand a lot of things apparantly..
" CFAvsMBA is the brah'da, that plays the role of another brah'da, that is a brah'da"
I think Asian cultures value the group more than the individual whereas Western cultures value the individual more than the group… or at least thats what my management class told me.
As racist as it may sound, Asians cheat way more than your average white bread male. Its like their standards are so high, and failure is so shameful, that its perfectly acceptable to break rules so long as you pass.
During level 2 in the LA test center, I saw a Chinese guy sitting in his car at break, chatting on his cell phone, writing down stuff that was going to be on the afternoon exam. I was parked next to him and was basically standing over him without him seeing me, but when he did he looked like he was about to cry. I was so focused on my own test taking that I never did anything, but part of me wishes I would have turned him in. CFA is such a merit thing, I don’t want people who don’t deserve it to have it.
i weep for humanity…humanity weeps for stormy
______________________________________________________
You must be the square root of two cause i feel irrational around you
http://alphahive.wordpress.com/
$500k seems a bit high. Tuition, fees, books, etc. will run you $63,288 per year according to HBS website, so $126,576 for two years. $500k would assume $373,424 in opportunity cost, or $186,712 per year. Median first year compensation for HBS grads in 2011 was $140,000, so I don’t think people with an average salary of $187k are going to HBS so that they can make $140k coming out. The data must be out there somewhere (I can’t find it quickly), but I would think HBS students are probably making around $100k when they enter.
You can fondle the cube, but it will not respond.
Hmm. Good of you to look up the numbers. Thanks.
Maybe it is job specific. I would wager that the finance people earn more than others, both before and after business school. 1st year bank associates after business school can probably get $250-$300k. For normal 2y analysts entering business school, previous compensation would have been about $150k (?). Plus, there is income growth in post-analyst years, assuming you can get a job without business school. But you are right - most people are not in finance and probably make less money.
There is also some prestige and perceived security effect that makes the decision not 100% economic. People might be willing to pay more than their explicit economic cost, as they might believe that the credential will make it easier to change jobs in the future (like if they get fired). Plus, the degree itself is desirable. People pay $100k for Porsches. Why not pay the same premium for a Harvard degree?
“I’m a CPA! I got money b***h!”
Ive grown…
" CFAvsMBA is the brah'da, that plays the role of another brah'da, that is a brah'da"
I haven’t :)
______________________________________________________
You must be the square root of two cause i feel irrational around you
http://alphahive.wordpress.com/
you say “cheating is just assumed to be normal …[in Asian countries]”. Do you not find anything morally reprehensible in that statement? So if cheating is normal (natural?) then the non-cheating Asians are odd, wierd and perverse? And i guess you would argue vigorously also that in the US high moral ground is normal and the cheaters dont just get caught with their pants down but are inherently (given that they live in the USA) at odds with the norm ?
Humanity isnt ready for an intercontinental beatdown ..besides we all know who would win in team USA Vs old irrelevant UK… didnt yall get yall ass handed to you by that latin country with that awesome soccer team?
" CFAvsMBA is the brah'da, that plays the role of another brah'da, that is a brah'da"
Different societies have different standards. In the US, it’s normal to weigh 250 lbs and eat triple cheeseburgers three times a week. Many Asian people would be disgusted by this. In Asia, things that might offend US people can be considered normal. I’m not being judgmental or condescending. This is just an observation. I grew up in an Asian country and observed these things first hand. A statement of fact is not reprehensible.
Furthermore, “not normal = perverse” is not the implication of anything I or anyone else has said. Mother Theresa was not normal, but she was not perverse. Not normal = not normal. Don’t put words in people’s mouths.
“And i guess you would argue vigorously also that in the US high moral ground is normal and the cheaters dont just get caught with their pants down but are inherently (given that they live in the USA) at odds with the norm ?”
Yes. Cheaters are not normal compared to US people. However, they would be normal (or at least less abnormal) in another country. The only determinant of “normal” is comparison to some population. Compared to the US population, cheaters are abnormal. Compared to an Asian population, they might be less abnormal.
“I’m a CPA! I got money b***h!”
i wasnt putting words in your mouth ohai, i was just giving my interpretation of what you said. that’s still my interpretation of what you said.
Ok. Then I will go ahead and say that your interpretation of what I said is incorrect.
“I’m a CPA! I got money b***h!”
you may well do that, but it is my interpretation of what you said that: a) I can know and b) I care about.
But that is not the definition of “interpretation”. You’re basically doing this:
ohai: Statement A.
Penny: So you mean Statement B?
ohai: No, it’s Statement A?
Penny: That’s ok. I will assume it’s still Statement B, even though you explicitly told me Statement A.
ohai: Wait what?
“I’m a CPA! I got money b***h!”
no, no, no, you can have someone explain something util they are blue in the face “you” will still come out of it with what you come out of it, that’s how i am meaning “interpretation” here.
all i am saing is “what you said - statement A - gives me this - X - impression”. i am not substituting one statement with another
have you two hooked up?
ohai:statement A
Penny:Impression X +statement A= statement B
ohai: statement B not equal to statement A because impression X is false.
______________________________________________________
You must be the square root of two cause i feel irrational around you
http://alphahive.wordpress.com/
Really, they’re sounding like a married couple. ohai, just apologize and say she’s right, and then go get a hummer from her best friend.
You can fondle the cube, but it will not respond.
Penny, drop the PC bullshit. He (and I) are commenting on observations. Morally reprehensible?
Where do all the fake drugs and bootlegged movies come from? You didn’t go to college with non-english speaking Asians that travelled in packs and consistently cheated? I even had a friend from Seoul that explained it to me. Certain groups stick together and don’t compete with each other. The older ones were basically obligated to give all their old notes and homework to the younger crop of Koreans. “It was just a cultural thing.”
I get all my bootlegged movies from Peru.
You can fondle the cube, but it will not respond.
not all Asians travel in packs…take that back!
" CFAvsMBA is the brah'da, that plays the role of another brah'da, that is a brah'da"
FWIW, at my college orientation (so long ago), they asked how many people cheated in high school. I saw at least 50% hands go up - this was in North Carolina. I was very surprised.
@stratman: People in Asia who make bootleg movies and fake drugs are probably not the same ones who cheat on exams. There is no connection between those two groups. Whereas in US, students are part of the population that eats triple cheeseburgers.
I believe that, but that in US means the younger Koreans are getting a degree at the expense of getting knowledge for themselves. Since they ARE probably the same type of people as students in Seoul, I wonder if that’s why South Korea has the highest per-capita percentage of PhDs yet proportionally less innovation? Samsung cannot be compared to Apple, for example. Or Huyndai to Honda.
--
One Rec Ho
Studying With
All Asians cheat. To them it is seen as helping each other. This crew of rice niggas use to always sit in the back of one of my classes. They weren’t even secretive about cheating. Deez niggas would be yapping in some dialect the whole exam. The professor got wise the second time around and said, “I’m not handing out exams until the group in the back disburses throughout the room.”
Studying With
A lot of assumptions in this thread. You may meet ‘Asian’ people who cheat but are you saying none of the people from other communities cheat? Are you saying that a majority of cheats/corrupt people are ‘Asians’?
Also, for the person talking about “bootlegged CDs” needs to wake up to the fact that a majority of the piracy of copyrighted audio/video material started out with the peer-to-peer networks originating from the western countries (mostly US). A lot of the financial fraud/embezzlement originates from the west but it does not mean that the American and English people are a bunch of cheats and con-men.
I am from India and while there is a lot of corruption here I haven’t heard of cheating on the CFA exams with fake passports yet. And to insinuate that requiring passports for identity proof stems out of “fake candidates” in Asia is assuming too much.
Blog: http://telcotovc.wordpress.com/
Twitter: @TelcoToVC
the crew of rice niggas??? HAAAHAA
______________________________________________________
You must be the square root of two cause i feel irrational around you
http://alphahive.wordpress.com/
Pages