(First) Marathon under 4.00 hours - tips please

Will be running my 1st marathon this Nov and have set a target to finish it under 4 hours. Starting my prep from Sept onwards (so 3 month timeframe). Running history Have run 2 half marathons in 2010 and 2011 respectively. Not a regular runner, you know this CFA kills! Only run once a year to keep the CFA-belly in check.

Any good suggestions, tips that I could leverage? I know there are quiet a few good runners in here.

Is this a fair target for a first timer?

I did it pretty easily with some training, followed the basic suggested training pattern you’ll see on the Internet. Increasing over a 14 week period. It really helped though that there were only three timing checkpoints so I was able to use my car to cheat.

Cars not allowed in the NYC marathon :frowning:

4 hours = Fair target. Run a lot. Don’t try to game your training, just put in a as many miles as possible. Do take at least one day a week to do faster splits and one day a week to run at least 10+ miles. At least two or three times before race day you should run a distance of 17-20 miles. The wall typically hits around 16, so you should experience it several times in training so you are prepared.

On race day drink frequently. Eat your gels every 30-45 minutes (including one at the start), don’t skip until you’re hungry or thirsty, by then it’s too late. Run much slower than you think you should for the first 10 miles. You should be getting passed a lot. By mile 12 you can start to let your pace increase to whatever’s comfortable and by the 20’s you should be running faster than feels comfortable. If you can manage the discipline to run negative splits (each 5 mile split consecutively faster than the last), you’ll be passing boatloads of people dragging ass in the 20’s. No ibuprofin or similar NSAID’s on race day. The stress of their impact on the liver combined with the load of lactic acid can cause major health problems.

interesting article about this in the New Yorker - dude cheated on a bunch of races (like 20 races or something) —

Marathon Man A Michigan dentist’s improbable transformation. by Mark Singer August 6, 2012 Read more http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/08/06/120806fa_fact_singer#ixzz239tmDB5r

ABSTRACT: A REPORTER AT LARGE about Kip Litton, a Michigan dentist who has been accused of repeatedly cheating in marathons and other distance-running events. In July, 2010, Kyle Strode, a forty-six-year-old from Helena, Montana, ran the Missoula Marathon. He placed fourth out of thirteen hundred and twenty-two finishers, and won the masters division, for entrants forty and older. The second masters runner to cross the finish line, Mike Telling, from Dillon, Montana, trailed Strode by nearly four minutes. At the awards ceremony, however, they learned that Telling had actually placed third. The official runner-up was Kip Litton, age forty-eight, of Clarkston, Michigan. Litton, who had been at the back of the pack when the race started, began his run two minutes after the gun was fired. He had apparently made up for lost time. Several days after the marathon, Strode visited a Web site that displayed photographs of runners along the Missoula route. Most participants appeared in several shots, each of which indicated, down to the second, when it was snapped. Strode noticed something curious: although there were four images of Litton taken at or near the finish line, and he’d posted a half-marathon split time, Strode couldn’t locate him anywhere in the preceding twenty-six miles. During the previous decade, Litton had run in more than a hundred races, including twenty-five marathons. His time in 2003 Jacksonville marathon, in Richmond, Virginia, qualified him for the Boston Marathon, the following April, where he covered the course in 3:25:06. On July 24, 2010, Strode received an unexpected inquiry from Jennifer Straughan, the Missoula race director, who asked him to look at a photograph of a runner wearing bib No. 759. It was Litton. “There is some question as to whether he was seen along the course,” Straughan wrote. “He finished in a time similar to you so theoretically you would have noticed him.” Strode kept investigating. At the Providence Marathon, in Rhode Island, where Litton had finished first in his age group, photographs showed him wearing shoes and shorts at the end of the course that were different from those he was wearing at the beginning. In the Delaware Marathon, Litton had finished first in his age group. After being prompted by Strode, the race’s director, Wayne Kursh, found that, among the finishers, Litton alone had failed to register split times. Kursh had a blog, and on August 6, 2010, he posted a blind item about Litton. Kursh wrote in a follow-up that he had been exchanging concerns with other race directors, adding, “I smell a rat.” Discusses discrepancies and irregularities from other races in which Litton participated. Tells about the West Wyoming Marathon, which Litton had fabricated, including false identities and times for participants. Writer arranges to meet Litton at the 2012 Boston Marathon, but Litton does not show up. Litton finally agrees to be interviewed at a restaurant near his home. Litton acknowledged that he had been disqualified from several races, but only for unintentional infractions. He conceded only to having “been careless, not paying attention.” When it came to specific disqualifications, he offered deflection, not explanation.

Read more http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/08/06/120806fa_fact_singer#ixzz239uU7iw6


I don’t know how you guys can run in a marathon (let alone running it under 4hrs) but a huge props to you all.

I hear its important to get the right running shoes and its all about pacing yourself. Coming out guns blazing is definitely not the way to go about this.

Very good pointers Black Swan, all point noted.

Do you know if half marathon timings have any correlation in predicting full marathon timings? Can I apply a simple formula of “double + 20 mins” as the best time that I can finish my full marathon under?

For the first (and only) marathon that I ran, my time was a lot higher than 2x + 20. I was too eager to run fast in the marathon and ran out of energy at around mile 20. Common rookie mistake! I ended at just under 4 hours. Plus it was hot and there were many hills.

I really don’t know of any exact formula. I do have one I use to ball park estimations working from marthons to 50k and 50m but it kinda requires some adjustments as well. For a marathon to 50M for example, I always figure 2x+2 as a very rough estimate of hours. I think your ability to pace yourself and keep your crap together over the last 8 miles are the biggest factors, plus course differences as he pointed out as well. For instance with trail races, the courses are so different noone even mentions finish times or splits or wears a watch. You just wing it till you get to the end.

Marathon Pace Calculator:

http://www.users.on.net/~klima/rkcalc_mi.htm 4 hours is a 9:10 pace. That is really not that fast.

Do you live in NYC? I’m trying to run a sub 6 for my first marathon. If you have a chance, check out my team’s page: http://www.dashingwhippets.org. A lot of my teammates have BQ’ed, so they know what they’re doing and have given me a boatload of advice. They hold track workouts and training runs every day of the week.

^ Yes, I work in NYC and live in NJ. The above link is blocked at work, will check it out from home later tonight.

I’m training for my first triathlon and have done a couple runs here and there. I have joined a friend who is training for the NY race, shes done coached programs and is a fst runner but just had a baby so I can keep up and learn the basics. Best lesson is go slow. I think if you are a beginner you are supposed to do like 80-90% of your miles at a very slow pace. Building this base is key even though it seems like you are being lazy. I was a college athlete and have the “if you are not puking you’re not trying” mentality- but this does not work for 26 miles and training that way is just stupid for long distance running.

When I did a half marathon 2 years ago my best 3 mile time trail after the race when I was at my peak was a full 1:30 slower than one I did lask week after only a month of running REALLY SLOW. I’m doing some drills and tempo work once a week, but don’t plan on doing much more untill I have much more of a base. I guess its a saying in the running world : “go slow to get fast”. It works- and it keeps you from burning out. Run where you can keep a conversation. This is the tempo breakout I use with 100% being your average speed in a 5k time trail- (all but one run a week are in zone 1/2)

Zone 1 Slower than 129% of FTPa Zone 2 114% to 129% of FTPa Zone 3 106% to 113% of FTPa Zone 4 99% to 105% of FTPa Zone 5a 97% to 100% of FTPa Zone 5b 90% to 96% of FTPa Zone 5c Faster than 90% of FTPa

Not really what they were after.

this comes off a bit dismissive- hopefully you are saying this in a positive “you can do it” kind of way. I personally think thats a pretty admirable goal for someone, especailly if they are desk monkey’s like the most of us and have no previous running experience. I think anyone can do that their first time around it deserves a tip of the hat.

Not only that, I’ve heard the NYC course isn’t the easiest in the world.

Awesome. Everyone on the team is really chill and friendly. That’s not to say we aren’t competitive, but we aren’t cracking the whip either.

What are your half-marathon timings like?

I ran my 1st half marathon with a timing of 1:40:56 (2010) and the 2nd half marathon in 1:45:XX (2011). I really wish to do the full under 4:00:00

… a lot slower than that!! lol :slight_smile:

The predictor calc’s put you at 3:43 based on a 1:45 half. Ithink you should set your goal a bit faster!!

^ That’s encouraging :slight_smile: