ChickenTikka Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Sorry misplaced modifier. > > The endangered species are the people who not > directly drive revenue at their respective > companies. > > You know, the IT guy who get’s paid 70k to plug in > ethernet cables. 90 percent of the communications > department. The secretaries. People who file > paperwork in accounting and legal. Perhaps, but we can just pass additional bank regulations and move them all over to compliance.
US population is mostly declining and aging, being replaced by mostly uneducated people from Central/ SA. This labor class will fit the bill for taking care of the elderly. With the huge waves of retirements in the offing, the fear of middle class death is a bit overblown.
brain_wash_your_face Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ChickenTikka Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > They include pretty much anyone that works at a > company that > > doesn’t directly drive revenue. > > Does not compute…you mean non-profits? The back end… like it happened with Automobile manufacturing few decades back, and you can see the changes in Industry today.
I completely agree that we need to basically let in immigrants to take care of our healthcare retirement needs. Still, these huge waves of retirements do not make me excited at all. Let me illustrate this with an anectdote. When I was a senior in college, I worked for UTX writing press releases and speeches for the president of Pratt & Whitney who is now the CEO of UTX. Even though I was just a 6 month co-op they gave me my own office in the communications department which was filled with 10 men, all about 50 who had worked for the company since the 60’s. It was a great job because I learned a lot from these guys. Except one after another they all retired. 8-10 people in the department retired by the time I left the job in June. They replaced only two of the positions and with people who were vastly less qualified. As I walked through the whole building I realized the same thing had happened in all the departments. I went to 20 different retirement parties in 6 months. Literally 1 per week. These guys were all basically forced to retire. Everyone knew that we had stopped machiner in the US. But now we were literally transplanting our brain to a where? India. I left that job and moved overseas to a BRIC. I see UTX literally everywhere I go over here. It’s growing massively.
ChickenTikka Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > It’s > growing massively. that’s what she said…
ChickenTikka Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I completely agree that we need to basically let > in immigrants to take care of our healthcare > retirement needs. > > Still, these huge waves of retirements do not make > me excited at all. Let me illustrate this with an > anectdote. > > When I was a senior in college, I worked for UTX > writing press releases and speeches for the > president of Pratt & Whitney who is now the CEO of > UTX. > > Even though I was just a 6 month co-op they gave > me my own office in the communications department > which was filled with 10 men, all about 50 who had > worked for the company since the 60’s. > > It was a great job because I learned a lot from > these guys. Except one after another they all > retired. 8-10 people in the department retired by > the time I left the job in June. They replaced > only two of the positions and with people who were > vastly less qualified. As I walked through the > whole building I realized the same thing had > happened in all the departments. > > I went to 20 different retirement parties in 6 > months. Literally 1 per week. These guys were > all basically forced to retire. Everyone knew > that we had stopped machiner in the US. But now > we were literally transplanting our brain to a > where? India. > > I left that job and moved overseas to a BRIC. I > see UTX literally everywhere I go over here. It’s > growing massively. ^ Atleast for Indians, I feel that the majority wants to return. It’s not the middle class, but the big shots who return, people I have met include a former senior scientist in Intel, many professors from Ivy who returned back, a guy who was a partner in BCG in early 30s and then left it to pursue PhD from Harvard and now works for Indian Govt. in planning commission, an entrepreneur who sold his software firm for more than 100 million… and the list goes on. I find it hard to digest when they say they are being treated as second class citizens (including the ones who are in America’s who’s who in science list), maybe it’s just the culture clash or maybe it’s nostalgia. I have met no one who didn’t wanted to return, everyone is just looking to find a good opportunity in India and move back, regularly I get the news of someone leaving a lucrative high profile job in US and coming back. The people who do not return are the ones who live in Middle class there and had education in not so good Universities in US, and surprisingly they are the ones who are very happy and content in US, while the best of immigrants, who went to Ivys, and worked in the most respected places there… are somehow frustrated.
The reason the most successful want to return, is because they can stomach the risk that moving back to India would entail. A middle class guy with two kids in college really can’t take that chance. Even if India doesn’t work out, a senior scientist in Intel can come back to US and do just fine. Plus, I don’t think there’s too many opportunities for midlevel NRI’s in India.
BangBusDriver Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I’ll take your scientists and computer architects and raise you Vikram Pandit, M Night Shyamalan and Salman Rusdie. Eh, I’ll add Ajay Bhatt just to put in a computer guy. Seriously though, I think if you have a pretty good job as a scientist or something then it is likely you will live better in India than the US, but it also depends on the individual as well. If you are over, say, $25mm net worth then you are likely living pretty globally anyway and where you live at a given time is kind of inconsequential.
well the sociological structures of both societies are different…bear with me please…my hypothesis is that most are suprised to find that while back home they are considered the upper class automatically having attended the “right schools” as opposed to here where at the top they still face some level of descrimation …
Palantir Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The reason the most successful want to return, is > because they can stomach the risk that moving back > to India would entail. A middle class guy with two > kids in college really can’t take that chance. > Even if India doesn’t work out, a senior > scientist in Intel can come back to US and do just > fine. > > > Plus, I don’t think there’s too many opportunities > for midlevel NRI’s in India. True… they take their chances. But the reason to come back is seldom more money. In fact they come with much reduced pay, that Intel scientist who came back has joined a startup in Embedded systems domain as head of R&D, he’s not making that much money, but he is a lot happier with the respect he garners here. The actual reason is culture clash, geeks and nerds and people who create real value are highly respected here, no matter how weird they are. Respect is much more than money in Indian society, and charms or looks doesn’t buy you any respect here, this attitude is has such deep roots that even artists don’t get paid even decently here neither they have any respect here, for Indians, an artist is a just guy who they pay to get entertained. There’s a huge culture wedge.
brain_wash_your_face Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > I’ll take your scientists and computer architects > and raise you Vikram Pandit, M Night Shyamalan and > Salman Rusdie. Eh, I’ll add Ajay Bhatt just to > put in a computer guy. > > Seriously though, I think if you have a pretty > good job as a scientist or something then it is > likely you will live better in India than the US, > but it also depends on the individual as well. If > you are over, say, $25mm net worth then you are > likely living pretty globally anyway and where you > live at a given time is kind of inconsequential. TRUE pimpineasy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > well the sociological structures of both societies > are different…bear with me > please…my hypothesis is that most are > suprised to find that while back home they are > considered the upper class automatically having > attended the “right schools” as opposed to here > where at the top they still face some level of > descrimation … TRUE Guys… I just laid out few culture shifts which I m seeing prominently here, nothing else man.
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BangBusDriver Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Palantir Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > The reason the most successful want to return, > is > > because they can stomach the risk that moving > back > > to India would entail. A middle class guy with > two > > kids in college really can’t take that chance. > > Even if India doesn’t work out, a senior > > scientist in Intel can come back to US and do > just > > fine. > > > > > > Plus, I don’t think there’s too many > opportunities > > for midlevel NRI’s in India. > > > True… they take their chances. But the reason to > come back is seldom more money. In fact they come > with much reduced pay, that Intel scientist who > came back has joined a startup in Embedded systems > domain as head of R&D, he’s not making that much > money, but he is a lot happier with the respect he > garners here. The actual reason is culture clash, > geeks and nerds and people who create real value > are highly respected here, no matter how weird > they are. Respect is much more than money in > Indian society, and charms or looks doesn’t buy > you any respect here, this attitude is has such > deep roots that even artists don’t get paid even > decently here neither they have any respect here, > for Indians, an artist is a just guy who they pay > to get entertained. There’s a huge culture wedge. Could you rewrite this please, I’m actually interested in what you’re trying to say, but I can’t make it out clearly because of a combination of grammar and too many here’s and there’s, I can’t tell which is which
The people that want to come back usually come back because of culture. The Indians that really integrate and become Americans have very little desire to come back to India. I meet these guys all the time. They might visit or even take an expat package in India for a bit. But they go back to the US. The ones that still eat veg, don’t drink, don’t like American movies, don’t like cold weather, etc will of course come back to India as soon as they have enough money. They hate it in America. A US Consulate officer told me this once with regards to their visa problem. They will approve essentially any guju couple over the age of 50 for a Visa because they know for sure that they will hate America and want to come back as soon as possible. Any 17 year old Bihari boy on the other hand will run for the hills as soon as they hit the ground in the U.S…
Sweep the Leg Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I expect to grow this ratio.
ChickenTikka Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > A US Consulate officer told me this once with > regards to their visa problem. They will approve > essentially any guju couple over the age of 50 for > a Visa because they know for sure that they will > hate America and want to come back as soon as > possible. > > Any 17 year old Bihari boy on the other hand will > run for the hills as soon as they hit the ground > in the U.S… Haha… definitely.
I think all in all US has the potential to turn into a oligarchy rivaling the latin american countries, with little or no opportunities for advancement. That will be the death knell for USA as we know it and the end of the remaining innovation and advancement in this country, possibly even becoming a theocratic undemocratic country like Iran (sounds unlikely, but who knows with the swathes of ignorant people seemingly teeming in the country). Thats a good time to jump ship to India/ China. Probably India until the time China becomes democratic.
marcus phoenix Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Thats a good time to jump ship to India/ China. > Probably India until the time China becomes > democratic. Ok, why? According to UN Gini coefficients US is 40.8 and India is 36.8. Not a big difference, particularly considering that India is in the midst of a secular economic expansion (which generally leads to higher income inequality, or at least has historically). China’s UN Gini is 46.9, more unequal than the US. Think about China like this: 1.3B people, it is basically just like the US except you add 1B impoverished tenant farmers. Edit, source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality
I was wondering today, “how long can china keep their working class so poor?” According to hofstede a long time. But this really should bubble over. Of course this is ironic.
ChickenTikka Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I was wondering today, “how long can china keep > their working class so poor?” > > According to hofstede a long time. But this really > should bubble over. Of course this is ironic. I really hope so and soon for the sake of peace with its neighbors. A belligerent China aiming to keep some control over its population through conflict does not bode well for India.