cpk123 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > what makes them different - is that > > 1. the questions where templates appear are within > the pages numbered as say 1 - for Q#1. > 2. When the individual grader gets the pages - all > pages for that question - including template page > is provided to him. > > So he can grade it irrespective of whether it is > on the template page, or if it is on the lined > pages for that question. Thanks, but this does nothing to address the fact that the rules say you have to use the template, FFS, you typed that out above as a cut and paste yourself. Remember folks, if you want the rules to be followed, then follow them, don’t cherry pick.
markCFAIL Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > cpk123 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > what makes them different - is that > > > > 1. the questions where templates appear are > within > > the pages numbered as say 1 - for Q#1. > > 2. When the individual grader gets the pages - > all > > pages for that question - including template > page > > is provided to him. > > > > So he can grade it irrespective of whether it > is > > on the template page, or if it is on the lined > > pages for that question. > > Thanks, but this does nothing to address the fact > that the rules say you have to use the template, > FFS, you typed that out above as a cut and paste > yourself. Remember folks, if you want the rules > to be followed, then follow them, don’t cherry > pick. I passed so my answer on this is irrelevant but cherry picking the rules pissed me off. I had written a question outside the template and erased the entire thing to put it back in the template. Knowing it would have been graded anyway makes me a bit mad because I could have been concentrating on getting other parts better rather than taking over 15 minutes moving an answer. The weird thing is the section I thought I did well on I did poor and the section I thought I did poorly on I did well coming out. Just a very weird test in general and I really do think how you put your answer labeling wise has a big impact on how you score answers.
> > Maybe some of the detractors here are so adamant > about booting my results out because then their > marginal scores might not cut it any longer. > Ghibli. > What? I’m done. Three for three, moving on. I spent half the afternoon session completely flustered and still had more >70 than you. But, who cares. You may have had all 100s. I’m fairly certain I didn’t. Enjoy the retake. One day you’ll wake up and realize your voice has changed and that your detractors were trying to throw you a bone. You’re not doing yourself any favors. In person, your supporters are just being polite. This topic was brought up at a CFA mixer and the laughter only started when the rationalizations were shared. If this topic ever comes up in an interview, don’t do anything but take complete ownership. Enough of this. I’m not usually this altruistic.
Mark, nearly every single reply of yours is a logical fallacy of some sort. So let me get this straight, since one “rule” isn’t followed, that means every rule shouldn’t be followed? Come on man. Unfortuantely all the time you studied was pretty useless since you couldn’t follow the directions. I hate to say it. It isn’t about the quantity of studying, it is about the quality. You lacked the absolute most important portion of preparation. But either way you can make up a billion excuses, point out a billion inconsistencies, and move the goal posts to a different universe. It doesn’t matter. You didn’t follow the rules. According to the CFAI, you didn’t answer any AM essay question other than the ones you wrote in the template. That was the rule. The rule was clear to anyone that bothered to pay attention. I do feel sorry for you, as a human being. But I pity you for trying to blame someone else or shift the goalposts away from your failure to read the directions. At the end of the day you made a mistake. It is what it is. And why would we want to boot your results out? You were band 5. Whether you scored highly on mocks means squat since you didn’t perform on the real deal because you left answers blank. Don’t be a douche.
Paraguay Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > markCFAIL Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > cpk123 Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > what makes them different - is that > > > > > > 1. the questions where templates appear are > > within > > > the pages numbered as say 1 - for Q#1. > > > 2. When the individual grader gets the pages > - > > all > > > pages for that question - including template > > page > > > is provided to him. > > > > > > So he can grade it irrespective of whether it > > is > > > on the template page, or if it is on the > lined > > > pages for that question. > > > > Thanks, but this does nothing to address the > fact > > that the rules say you have to use the > template, > > FFS, you typed that out above as a cut and > paste > > yourself. Remember folks, if you want the > rules > > to be followed, then follow them, don’t cherry > > pick. > > I passed so my answer on this is irrelevant but > cherry picking the rules pissed me off. > > I had written a question outside the template and > erased the entire thing to put it back in the > template. Knowing it would have been graded > anyway makes me a bit mad because I could have > been concentrating on getting other parts better > rather than taking over 15 minutes moving an > answer. > > The weird thing is the section I thought I did > well on I did poor and the section I thought I did > poorly on I did well coming out. Just a very > weird test in general and I really do think how > you put your answer labeling wise has a big impact > on how you score answers. I agree. Cherry picking rules is wrong. But just because they cherry pick doesn’t mean that all rules can be bent. Personally I don’t want to leave soemthing up to chance, such as random cherry picking. Just follow all of the rules.
markCFAIL Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > cpk123 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > what makes them different - is that > > > > 1. the questions where templates appear are > within > > the pages numbered as say 1 - for Q#1. > > 2. When the individual grader gets the pages - > all > > pages for that question - including template > page > > is provided to him. > > > > So he can grade it irrespective of whether it > is > > on the template page, or if it is on the lined > > pages for that question. > > Thanks, but this does nothing to address the fact > that the rules say you have to use the template, > FFS, you typed that out above as a cut and paste > yourself. Remember folks, if you want the rules > to be followed, then follow them, don’t cherry > pick. But you didn’t follow the rules. It appears your main grip is that more people should have failed due to rule breaking. That just sounds like sour grapes.
Common guys give them a break. They worked hard and deserved to pass; Last time I checked CBOK did not mention exam formats. I concede its their fault not reading/ listening to the instructions but the punishment is far greater than the crime. Maybe a punitive financial fine might be justifiable but going through this torture again is definitely not (time away from family, friends, things you love). I also accept the template argument as they mention that you can “answer those questions on lined pages but you will lose valuable time” (at the moment cant remember where I read this). But how do you justify not penalizing those who used pencils. The exams clearly mentions use blue/blank ink yet they grade penciled exams. This issue can be easily managed (by providing actual samples) which would make the exams and eventually the designation better. For the life in me I cant figure out why they don’t do this already.
The institute can give an option to the people who encountered this problem by paying extras (like 300US) to the institute to grade any answers that are not written on the right space. I bet most will take it, then it will be win-win.
The CFAI makes photocopies of your lined answer sheets to give to the multiple graders who grade your exam. These lined answer sheets also have spaces for the graders to make notes on the right (“For CFAI graders use only” or something). The graders never get a copy of the questions because those are where people make their own notes and scribbles, and circle and underline parts of the questions. For most people these pages are a big mess. Even if the graders did get a copy of the question pages, where would they write their notes on how you scored? How would they be able to distinguish the difference between scribbles and actual answers? Also, there is nothing on the right of the question pages that allows them to put the points you got for your answer for them to tally up later. There is simply not enough space on a question page to put your own answer, and the CFAI grader marks.
whether you think what happened to people who screwed up is fair or not doesn’t really matter. The reason I started this thread was to see how many people made this mistake. Let’s keep it on topic.
Yah i know im getting off in the weeds. I just find it interesting to see how many billy-badasses we have behind the safety of their computer screens. Sour grapes? Absolutely. You would be too. Pay $300 to have them grade? Sh!t, i’d pay $5,000 and not blink. My point is not to bend all rules if you bend one, it’s that validating the reason that tests wont be graded by referencing written instructions cannot be a legitimate argument if you are going to violate other instructions. Of course I am fighting this and am frustrated, I strongly doubt if any of you were in my shoes you would feel differently.
I hate to be rude, but no amount of complaining will change your results. As I said when you all first posted about this right after the exam, CFAI makes it very clear what the instructions are and what the consequences are for not following them. If they budge at all, it becomes a slippery slope and every guy that failed will demand a retab. According to the website, there were 22,784 people who sat for L3. If we GENEROUSLY assume 500 people did what you did (which is probably a Huuuge stretch) that comes out to 2.2%. If 98% of people can do it correctly, then that is a YOU problem and not a THEM (CFAI) problem.
i passed and had the same issue - how many people do you think were in that boat? or people that just lost time since they started to answer a question in the wrong place and had to recopy and then couldnt double check another answer. another easy to imagine scenario. this is a shitty situation that could easily be averted by CFAI just marking their books more clearly.
This post reminds me of a flashback from Sharkweek where the great white breaches the water eating the seal. Out of the thousands of seals, someone needs to be dinner for the great whites.
Alladin Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > haha this talk about sleep reminds me of the night > before the L2 exam where I was cuddled in bed > watching a UFO documentary in a hotel in > London…had fu^%ing nightmares and was so tired > in the morning …lol. I was watching “Too big to fail” on HBO…really tooke me back to the dark days and which was a good distraction for me the night before the exam, to relax…
The template issue makes sense to me because people usually write in pen, and if they want to change their answer in the template area they will have to go to the lined page anyhow. Also - in my copy of the 2007 exam that was released, but removed earlier this year, there are no extra lined pages - so I don’t think last year’s takers had a preview version of the actual exam, unless they had downloaded 2006 early on.
Does anyone know whether they actually keep the question pages once the answer pages are removed for grading? Or do you think they are discarded/recycled?
When you can’t ever follow simple instructions and write answers in the advised places then it really makes me wonder how people even got to level III. My piece of advise is dont tell too many people you did that because it is pretty embarrassing for you that you cant even do something as simple as that. That is the truth and sometimes it hurts …
Why is everyone so sure that the the instructions were “misunderstood” and that a “mistake” was made in reading the instructions? Unless you have the instructions right here, word for word-you cannot be sure. I have marked exam papers-and I know how just one careless word on the part of the question setter can cause more than half , if not all , to fail. Also-what about the markers.As I have said-they are now under pressure from CFA to complete marking within set deadlines.It is not like in the past when results are released whenever they are ready-ie markers given the time to finis their work-not work to a deadline.
Hey, If I could write the exam on the designated pages, and then also write modified answers in the non-designated answer pages, get a fail result, and then call up and pay $xxx for them to grade the other pages, I would too. It would spread the risk and give me two chances to pass. This is why they would probably never offer this. The issue becomes, if they grade your paper then how do they draw the line and not reviewing EVERYONE’s questions pages to see if they can scoop up more points due to note taking? It’s too grey area and then goes on to give you an advantage over others. I feel terrible for you and it’s a bad situation but ultimately it is bad because you didn’t listen OR read the directions on the test day. It is not someone else’s fault, in my opinion. Just my two cents.