Nobody does. This has thrown so much of a monkeywrench in our practice that one partner is actually contemplating early retirement simply because he doesn’t want to deal with all of it.
And it’s apparently not that bad now. By 2017, if one person out of the Duggar Family (19 kids and two adults) is out of insurance for a month, then every single person in the family could be subject to the penalty. $695 per adult and $347.50 per child.
All of this for something that’s “not a tax”. (Even though it goes on IRS-prescribed forms, filters down to the individual 1040, and is collected by the IRS.)
I actually just meant that then a solution has to be put forward genius. But thanks for going off on a personal tangent about “typical democrats” which I am not (perfect 50/50 voting record when I used to vote). My point as stated earlier was that it will serve as a catalyst. In otherwords, since we now have an altered a system that Republicans find unbearable for some reason, they will be prioritize adjustments to presumably make it better. This is a good thing. I know it’s hard for most knuckleheads to grasp, but this can actually be an iterative process in which we work towards a more optimal solution. Jesus.
yeah, Canada isn’t so great with getting appointments for preventive care but some places are better than others. i live in one of the worst places for finding a doctor, and good doctor for that matter, that actually is helpful with preventive care. seeing specialists takes forever.
that said, i feel pretty good about paying 60% of the cost for care than i would in the U.S. assuming i needed to hit up ER for a broken neck, which is really all that matters. i mean, since we can all read, and the majority of folks, on this forum at least, can objectively analyze things, the internet provides all the information you need to self-diagnose basic ailments and diseases. one day we’ll just talk to IBM’s Watson and he’ll write a prescription for you.
Hospitals need to operate as a for profit center and only admit individuals who have means to pay for services. Someone like Bill Gates should get a EMT helicopter if he becomes injured. If some homeless guy gets hit by a car…well, it’s all part of the circle. The circle of life.
I agree that there is a “wellness” and “healthy living” aspect to healthcare, but you say this as if the primary question isn’t about how to pay for medical services when they are needed. Or are you arguing that doctors are incompetent too.
I’m arguing that insurance <> health care. The former protects against unexpected high costs and the latter assumes routine visits and prescriptions.
The point has been hammered endlessly, but why does a GP doctor’s visit, a common prescription, childbirth, or birth control need to be insured against at all? These are all reasonably forseeable events, wants, or needs that individuals should be capable of planning for.
Insuring these things just transfers the burden of cost from the individual to the group, reducing the individual incentive to reduce costs and thereby raising overall costs due to overconsumption.
As evidence, look at procedures that are typically uninsured like Lasik eye surgery. Since the mid-1990’s, these procedures have dropped slightly in inflation adjusted terms while quality has improved immensely. Compare that to something that insurance covers like TKR. The price has more than doubled in the same time period (inflation adjusted).
Our insurance system is what’s wrong. And that’s Obamacare is so misguided. All it does is expand the problem.
I agree with all of this. My main issue with Obamacare is it didn’t do anything to solve the underlying issues of the US health care system, which includes excessive cost and waste. HSA’s are great and should be open to anybody because we’ve seen that when people are spending their own money and have control over the costs, they spend less and prioritize.
But as an example to the above, it’s not like when my car needs new tires or new brakes, I pay a $100 copay and my auto insurer pays the rest.
I haven’t read through this whole thread, but I’ll offer my take on the problem. It’s both an insurance and a health care problem.
My youngest son was born healthy, more or less, but has gone through hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of billable medical services. He had recurring respiratory issues from 0-12 months that required hospitalization. He has epilepsy that has seen him hospitalized 4 times, with one of those being a week + stay that included 48 hours in the equivalent of an induced coma(sedation + respirator). His anti-seizure meds are only around $700/month now, but they were several thousand per month on a previous medicine. He has a hearing loss that requires hearing aids and regular consultations with an audiologist. The same neurological issues that likely contribute to the hearing loss and the epilepsy are thought to have contributed to a developmental and cognitive delay. So he spent birth through age 4 or so working with nutritionists, physical therapists, occupational therapists, speech therapists, etc. Some of this was through the school district, but much of it was billed through insurance.
Now he’s 8 and he’s racked up a half million in medical bills, I’ve paid my $6-$8K per year in premiums + out of pocket maximums, but the system is still short $450K that was covered by “insurance.” The important thing to me is that he’s a healthy, average 2nd grader. Doing well in school, 3 years seizure free, above average size for his age, playing sports, doing well in school, etc. But I’m fully aware that no amount of my taxes, my premium payments or down the line his taxes and premium payments are ever going to cover the costs that he’s incurred.
The bleeding heart in me says the ends justify the means. Regardless of the cost, there is a healthy, productive 8 year old that didn’t ask for any of the issues but has been bordeline heroic(I’m biased) in tackling every bit of adversity he’s faced. But the libertarian in me knows that we’re takers. If everyone acted like me, the system collapses. I have a hard time finding a solution that doesn’t eventually turn into a Monty Python skit with people walking down the street hollering “bring out yer dead.”
^Holy shit that must have been hard to go through. I thought my daughter was going to have to be put under once for a relatively routine surgery and I stayed up through the night doing research for like 3 nights straight.
It used to be difficult. You get used to it, but you also gain perspective. When he was 4, I left my hair clipper plugged in and he took a chunk out of his hair, so we shaved his head so he didn’t look ridiculous. The next day, we had to go to the neurologist for a day of testing. The office was in the children’s hospital here. While in a play area, a little boy who was clearly going through cancer treatments pointed at my son’s head and said to his parents, “he’s just like me mommy.” Things were a lot less scary after that because you realize you’re still remarkably fortunate. I had insurance in a developed country and an employer willing to give me limitless time off to work through years of specialists and hospital stays and everything else. Beyond that, my son has never complained about a single doctor visit, procedure, prescription switch…It makes it hard to feel sorry for yourself when the person who lives it every day doesn’t.
No, it’s necessary to get into a major accident first, and then if you have collision insurance, you get he new tires and brakes along with a new car. If you don’t have collision insurance, then you sue the other guy to get their insurance to pay for it.
Hmm, maybe the two insurances are more alike after all.
You are absolutely not a taker, in fact this is the proper use of medical insurance.
Before all that, I wish your son the best. It cannot have been easy on him or his parents.
You insure against medical problems you cannot foresee. For someone like your son there are a hundred of someone like me who (knock on wood) have “wasted” thousands of dollars in insurance premiums by never getting seriously sick or hurt. That’s exactly what insurance pools are designed for. Peace of mind for me, care for those who need it.
Insurance pools are NOT designed for regular and predictable care. That’s how you end up with Medicare patients paying $1.20 or whatever out of pocket per Doctor visit while the rest of us subsidize their hypochondriac ass.
I have no problem paying extra so more people can get coverage. Especially as I have had an uninsured relative have a major medical event that required a substantial amount of out of pocket expenses. This healthcare system fully depends on having patients that have insurance and any attempt to extend coverage is OK by me.
This is not accurate and reflects a misunderstanding of how insurance works. Insurance is in theory for unpredictable expenses, but modern managed care is not there to protect against unforeseen expenses, instead it is a prepaid healthcare plan which pays a negotiated rate to providers.
I totally agree with this, although you can imagine politically, it sounds terrible to propose. The sickest 5% of Medicare actually use something like 40% of all the funds. That’s a massive slice.
If you simply cap out the benefit payout… it literally fixes the funding problem overnight for multiple generations to come.
Obamacare ate his entire margin? I’m not a fan of the Obamacare scheme (as an outsider). But I think shutting down a profitable business because of Obamacare sounds overly dramatic.
just do as we do, set up a large cumbersome inefficient government agency to provide health care to the masses and go and find an employer that will pay for your private health care so you don’t have to deal with it.
all this libertatian ‘tax is theft’ bullshit is all very well but doesn’t work for health care for the reasons bchad outlined.