Zimmerman should go to prison for 2nd degree murder. The kid was walking away from him and the cops told him not to do anything.
The stand your ground law is great but this has nothing to do with it. I’m pro-gun as well.
What do you mean? If the “stand your ground” law did not exist, Zimmerman would almost definitely be convicted; he could have retreated but did not. It is because of this law that he was not arrested immediately and might be found innocent. Other things might also matter, but this law is very material to this case.
The fact that he wasn’t arrested immediately really doesn’t mean anything. It’s the job of the DA to bring charges. He wasn’t arrested at the time because significant evidence didn’t exist that a crime was committed. After going through the facts, they decided to bring the murder charge.
OK so yes that law is significant but what I mean is it isn’t applicable to his defense. Yes he is going to claim that it qualifies but the fact that the kid was walking away from him and the cops told him not to do anything he should be convicted. BUT this is FL and FL is filled with the dregs of society. Anything can happen in a jury trial.
What that law means is if someone breaks into your house you can shoot and kill them. Or something similar. Most other states you have to show the assailant is going to harm/kill you but in FL if someone breaks into your house and is high/drunk whatever, you can shoot them. Same in TX. I really don’t have a problem with that.
That kid was not on Zimmerman’s property. Was not inside his car or did not take any of his personal property.
So, in a perfect world Zimmerman should be convicted of 2nd degree murder. BUT once again this is FL.
^Respect. FL is a horse of a different color.
False. I quote, “Under “stand your ground” in this state, you have a right to have a firearm with you. You have a right to basically have a heated discussion with somebody,” said Tampa defense attorney John Fitzgibbons. “And if you are in reasonable fear of your life because of actions taken by another person, then you are allowed to use deadly force.” Artile below.
TAMPA — Trevor Dooley’s lawyers say it was an act of self-defense — pulling the trigger kept him alive.
David James was on top of him, hands around Dooley’s neck. Dooley couldn’t breathe. He tried to warn James by poking him in the leg twice with a handgun.
When it didn’t work, Dooley fired.
Lawyers for Dooley, the man accused of killing his Valrico neighbor, submitted their argument Thursday in a motion asking a judge to dismiss the manslaughter charge against him.
Their main defense? Florida’s “stand your ground” law.
The law allows a person to use deadly force to save his own life, even if retreat is possible.
The filing comes at a time when national attention is focused on another Florida case in which the “stand your ground” law has been invoked.
More than six weeks after the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin in Sanford, authorities arrested George Zimmerman Wednesday amid public outcry for justice. Charged with second-degree murder, Zimmerman told Sanford police he shot Martin in self-defense after Martin attacked him.
Dooley’s lawyers also say the then 69-year-old was protecting himself when he shot James, 41, after a 2010 argument over skateboarding.
According to the Hillsborough County Sheriff’s Office, the altercation began when Dooley approached the basketball courts in his Twin Lakes subdivision telling a skateboarder he wasn’t allowed. James protested.
Dooley, who had a concealed weapons permit, started to walk away with a gun partially visible in his waistband, deputies said. James called after him and Dooley turned back. James lunged, and they both tumbled to the ground.
James, a 20-year Air Force veteran, was kneeling on top of Dooley when the gun went off.
Now, it will be up to Hillsborough Circuit Judge Ashley Moody to make the call. She can decide to move forward with a jury trial or dismiss the charge based on the law.
In order to use the law, several factors must be met.
“Under “stand your ground” in this state, you have a right to have a firearm with you. You have a right to basically have a heated discussion with somebody,” said Tampa defense attorney John Fitzgibbons. “And if you are in reasonable fear of your life because of actions taken by another person, then you are allowed to use deadly force.”
In the motion filed Thursday, Dooley’s lawyers outline four important details in their case.
First, Dooley was not engaged in any illegal activities, they stated. Though Dooley was charged with improper exhibition of a firearm and openly carrying a firearm, the motion denies this. It states that Dooley always kept his handgun in his right pants pocket.
Second, Dooley was attacked. James “lunged” and “charged” at Dooley, the motion states.
“(James) gave Mr. Dooley no choice but to defend himself when he pinned him to the ground and began choking him.”
Third, the motion states Dooley had a right to be at the park because he was a resident of the community.
And fourth, Dooley believed firing the gun was necessary to prevent his own death.
“Here, the evidence is overwhelming that Mr. Dooley had a choice that day,” the motion states, “either wait to be killed by (James) or defend himself by using his handgun he was legally carrying.”
The motion also points out the size and appearance of James as a contributing factor to Dooley’s fear for his life. James was younger, heavier and stronger than Dooley, the motion states. Dooley was weaker and more fragile due to existing medical conditions.
The state is expected to present its side to Judge Moody in a motion later this month.
In the end, it will come down to what the evidence shows.
“No matter how you view the statute,” Fitzgibbons said, “it would appear to apply if, and only if, you believe Trevor Dooley’s version of the events.”
What pissses me off about this case is that people on either side presume to know what happened.
There is a reasonable chance that Martin attacked Zimmerman and he was protecting his own life. Based on what we know, this might have happened. If that is the case, it’s hard to blame Zimmerman for shooting him.
Conversely, there is a reasonable chance that Martin was on his knees praying to Jesus, thinking pure thoughts, when the big bad neo nazi, white (but actually latino) wanna be cop in the ku klux klan uniform murdered the teenager in cold blood. Also plausible based on what we know so far.
Depending on who you talk to you will get both of these versions of the story and people talk about it with full certainty. I think the only correct answer so far is, we need to see the facts. And by We, I mean a jury.
People like spike lee should be arrested for putting people in danger the way he did when he tweeted the wrong address to zimmerman to his fans.
Blake, I’m calling you out, since you love to go Zimmerman on me usually, how can you say he deserves a 2nd degree murder charge? Were you there? Can you say unquivocably one way or the other that Martin did not attack him? Of course you cannot. You are merely speculating.
From what we do know, someone who was pretty young, overzealous and ill equipped to handle the situation used pretty lousy judgement and f*cked up pretty badly. In hindsight he should have stayed in his car and waited for the police. I’m not sure what crime that is, it might be one, I’m just not sure what to call it. Stupidity? Still, there is nothing illegal about approaching someone. Nothing.
What happenened next is anybody’s guess and until the jury decides the public should stay out of this so that the victims and the defendent can have a fair trial based on facts and not on mob rule.
^Agreed 100%.
It’s shocking and pretty disgusting how quickly everyone has rushed to judgement on this case.
Honestly I think world would be much safer if only gangsters and cops carried guns. It seems that when civilians are allowed to carry guns all they end up doing is sticking their nose into other people’s business and then using guns when they find out they scrap worth a lick.
Thats pretty much the definition of 2nd degree murder, I’ve had a few old friends who put themselves in similar situations so I can somewhat understand the situation. He might get lucky and plead down to manslaughter and do 5-8 years (2 if he was in canada) but a 2nd degree murder charge is appropriate in these circumstances.
Once again, you’re assuming he just shot Martin without any struggle or altercation. You’re taking the Martin is 100 percent innocent and was killed by the white supremecist story. We do not know if there was a fight. We do not know if Martin threatened him or not.
There is NO crimei in being stupid and approaching someone. That is not 2nd degree murder. It is probably poor judgement. But that’s not a crime in America.
I have a feeling that involuntary manslaughter is the most they are gonna get in this case. How are the gonna prove that he had the “intent to kill” for the 2nd degree murder charge?
He’re another good one: This guy hasn’t been arrested yet either. I guess that’s because Al Sharpton doesn’t get outraged on behalf of white people.
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Was I there? What do you think? Most crimes like that don’t have witnesses. They have one witness. The killer. Prosecuters are still able to assemble evidence and convict.
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The kid was shot from behind. This is consistent with a non-defense.
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He’s on tape by the cops telling him to walk.
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No you cannot walk up to someone and detain them. Yes that is illegal. We’ll see what you would do if someone walked up to your wife or girlfriend and grabbed her at night. Of course she is going to fight back.
I don’t know how FL works but in some states it is possible the jury could reject 2nd degree and accept a lesser charge such as manslaughter. It’s possible he might get 2nd degree. It’s possible he could get acquited. Anything can happen in a jury trial especially in a state as f*cked up as FL. The one thing I know for certain is you are a complete moron for referencing the KKK.
Why am I a moron for referring to the KKK? Are we children? Are we supposed to pretend that these people and their history of committing crimes against minorities do not exist? Many people suspect or believe this was a hate crime. The whole reason this is a national news story is that it is potentially a hate crime.
If the killing wasnt racially motivated then all we have is a tragedy involving one dumb irresponsible young kid killing another and really we have ourselves to blame for letting him play rent-a-cop in the first place. This sort of thing happens all of the time when you give idiots, and especially young idiots, too much authority and not enough supervision.
Blake, it must be nice to walk around with an omniscient perspective in a completely black and white world. I wish I saw everything as clearly and correctly as you do all of the time.
It’s amazing to me how easily you can jump to conclusions with absolute certainty, such as Zimmerman’s guilt or my own stupidity based on the most circumstantial pieces of evidence Reminds me of a kid in Florida who said, “Hey, that guy is wearing a hoodie ergo he must be a criminal.”
On a Friday eveing, after dinner with friends, I “accidentally” bump into some guy. He was little buzzed and acted extremely violently, cursing at me. So, I cursed back and yelled at his face. He pushed me a little so I pushed him a little harder. He then, with a crazy, “raged” face come charging at me, so I shoot him. Stand your ground law at its best.
For Zimmerman, the dispatcher told him not to pursue Martin, yet he continued to follow him and got out of his SUV to confront him. I don’t know about you guys, but if I feel like the situation can get real serious and I was told to just leave the person alone, I would floor my SUV the hell outta there.
I like this story: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDxPDgoJB6E&feature=relmfu
Highlights:
Young hispanic guy in Arizona at a taco bell walks in front of a car going through the drive through. Car nearly hits him. He mouths off to the driver, a black male, most likely because he thinks he could have been run over. Words escalate.
Hispanic guy has a relatively young looking dog on a leash which the guy in a the car interprets as a threat to his safety, even though he is in his car.
Drivers shoots the pedestrian with dog dead from inside his automobile.
God Bless America.
There’s a couple of lessons here.
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Don’t mouth off in Red States. People have guns and can shoot you with very little pretext.
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Don’t visit red states, but if you do, be polite. Even when people nearly kill you. If they nearly killed you, it’s not unreasonable to think they would go a little bit further to actually kill you.
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Don’t bring a puppy to a gun fight.
This is the key point IMO. I don’t see it as “standing your ground” when you ignore the 911 dispatcher’s directions to not pursue someone and do it anyway. If Martin had been in the act of harming someone and Zimmerman stepped in that would be a lot different, but no one has said Martin was doing anything other than walking down the street. If the stand your ground defense works in this case, I see no reason why people won’t be able to walk into bad neighborhoods in FL, shoot anyone who walks over to them in a threatening manner, and cite the Zimmerman case as precedent.
I, like everyone else, wish Zim had followed directions, but I’m not sure how we get to 2nd degree murder from there. Tell me where I’m wrong here, I’m curious.
He has a right to ignore the dispatcher. He has a right to approach Martin. None of this is illegal. Ill advised? Yep. Irresponsible? Yep. Stupid. Yep.
But if Martin then attacks him how can you put Zimmerman in prison for defending himself? (That Martin attacked him is merely an assumption for hypothetical purposes. I have no idea what happened, unlike Blake who know’s exactly what transpired thanks to his omiscience gained through his Masters of Science Degree).
I’ve noticed a lot of lawyers mouthing off on the news saying they think this thing won’t even go to trial based on the evidence the prosecution has presented. They are calling this appeasement in order to quell Black communities so that they feel at least somewhat like the case is being take seriously.
That makes sense to me.
That’s exactly my point and what I’m worried about.
And Defense Rests. Everyone knows guilty defendants don’t testify.
I hope yyou’re not on my jury.