I know there are some accomplished tennis players on AF. I am out of shape, but looking to get back into the game. I never really had any formal instruction before. If you could start all over again learning the game how would you do it? What about leagues? How do the rankings work? What else?
Where are you located?
Nowhere good for tennis. Pittsburgh, PA.
mwvt9 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Nowhere good for tennis. > > Pittsburgh, PA. I thought you were in FLA for some reason. I am pretty decent at tennis (played 4 yrs HS Var.). I also met a tennis instructor in my apt bldg. I love the game. Honestly, I would say your best bet would be to see an instructor 10 times. 5 lessons should be solely on your service. The other 5 should be split between ground strokes and net play. The rest you really just pick up from playing. Tennis is a surprisingly strategic game and there is no better feeling then punishing someone on the court. It is only you and your opponent so it makes it that much more personal.
There are a few tennis pros on this forum that actually played professionally, e.g. satellite tour, challenger events, etc. I’d love to hear their thoughts. I played competitively for a couple years in college and currently play at the NTRP 4.5-5.0 level, so still decent by most standards. Best way to learn is obviously to go out and get practice, and to find someone that is really mechanically sound. A lot of the time, the tennis pros just teach you all this junk which is helpful to get the ball over the net, but not helpful in terms of developing your technique. In other words, I routinely see a lot of players that were taught to do certain things to get the ball over the net, but then they end up having to undo all those bad habits AND re-learn good technique in order to advance to intermediate and above levels (i.e. NTRP 4.0 and above). I didn’t have this when I learned to play tennis as a kid, but there is some seriously good stuff at www.fuzzyyellowballs.com and hi-techtennis.com. You have to pay for the latter but the first one is free. Some of those concepts may be tough to implement or even understand if you have never played the game before, but the key is to find a coach that will help you practice those things. If the coach teaches you stuff like eastern grip forehands, pancake serves, not using your body weight to drive the ball, and other bad habits, you need to dump them and find someone that truly understands that good tennis mechanics are all about the kinetic chain, and good tennis strategy is mostly about disrupting the rhythm of your opponent and playing your highest percentage shots/angles. At the start, focus on developing good groundstrokes and great footwork, then develop your serves and volleys. However, don’t overlook the importance of getting actual playing time. That’s where you will develop your approach game, court awareness, and overall strategy.
numi Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > There are a few tennis pros on this forum that > actually played professionally, e.g. satellite > tour, challenger events, etc. I’d love to hear > their thoughts. > > I played competitively for a couple years in > college and currently play at the NTRP 4.5-5.0 > level, so still decent by most standards. Best way > to learn is obviously to go out and get practice, > and to find someone that is really mechanically > sound. A lot of the time, the tennis pros just > teach you all this junk which is helpful to get > the ball over the net, but not helpful in terms of > developing your technique. In other words, I > routinely see a lot of players that were taught to > do certain things to get the ball over the net, > but then they end up having to undo all those bad > habits AND re-learn good technique in order to > advance to intermediate and above levels (i.e. > NTRP 4.0 and above). This is precisely what I am trying to avoid, but I don’t think I know enough to evaluate who is “good” or “bad” for the long term. > > I didn’t have this when I learned to play tennis > as a kid, but there is some seriously good stuff > at www.fuzzyyellowballs.com and hi-techtennis.com. > You have to pay for the latter but the first one > is free. Some of those concepts may be tough to > implement or even understand if you have never > played the game before, but the key is to find a > coach that will help you practice those things. If > the coach teaches you stuff like eastern grip > forehands, pancake serves, not using your body > weight to drive the ball, and other bad habits, > you need to dump them and find someone that truly > understands that good tennis mechanics are all > about the kinetic chain, and good tennis strategy > is mostly about disrupting the rhythm of your > opponent and playing your highest percentage > shots/angles. I have tried to pick up some stuff on my own. I will check out these websites. I currently play with a semi western grip, continental for serves and trying to learn a one handed backhand with an eastern grip. Something is very wrong with my serve though because after awhile my arms starts to hurt. Could be a lack of pronation? The strategy is what I think really draws me to tennis. I don’t know much about it, but can see that at the higher levels it is a huge part of the game. I come from a golf background and the pre-shot thinking is most of the game at the higher levels. > > At the start, focus on developing good > groundstrokes and great footwork, then develop > your serves and volleys. However, don’t overlook > the importance of getting actual playing time. > That’s where you will develop your approach game, > court awareness, and overall strategy. Edit: Since both of you mentioned strategy, do you have any resources to learn about it?
I played the satellites/futures/challenger circuit for a few years. My highest world ranking was around 700 so I played in the “minor leagues” of professional tennis. I also played college tennis. I have also taught many tennis lessons to people of various ages and skill levels. As far as learning to play the game, you need a good teaching pro. Unfortunately, most tennis pros want to make you have a good time (hit and giggle type stuff) rather than teach you the fundamentals. However, you need to find somebody that will work on your technique and teach you the correct way to hit ball with the correct grips etc. It sounds like you are on the right track with semi-western, continental serve grip etc. You probably need some refining, but it sounds like you have the basic skills. Have you tried the two handed backhand? It is quite a bit easier to learn that the one handed and is often more consistent. Movement is also key. You can make up for deficiences in technique with excellent footwork and movement around the court. Thus, getting back in shape will certainly help your tennis game. I can post more later when I think of more.
thommo77 is one of the people I was talking about who played at a really high level. I never had any aspirations of becoming professional and am definitely not at thommo77’s level, but most of the guys I hit with are former low-end Division I or Division II players that play recreationally and just want to have fun (including myself). I too have taught tennis and co-captain a men’s tennis team in Texas, and personally enjoy the finer details of the game. Personally I’ve always thought of myself as a much better coach than a player. For your question about *serve*, that’s probably the toughest part of tennis to execute properly. So many things can go wrong with it, and you have to work on a lot of things simultaneously in order for the entire “kinetic chain” to work properly. I highly recommend that you look at some videos on serving on the web. There are some good ones on the sites I recommended as well as YouTube. From a physics perspective, most of the spin/pace off your serve comes from pronation of the wrist; the second biggest factor is getting your body weight behind the serve, and the third most important factor is generating power using your legs, though this factor is also a function of your body weight since force equals mass times acceleration. Anyway, when I’m having a bad day serving, I think about several fundamental things and concentrate on getting all of them together, though pronation is really the most important one if none of the others seem to be working: (1) Am I pronating through the ball and getting sufficient racquet head speed? – racquet speed is what generates spin; if you don’t have racquet head speed, your serve is just going to be a floater). (2) Am I keeping my arm loose and hitting up at the ball? – The key is to hit UP at the ball; unless you’re 6’6" or taller, it’s physically impossible to swing the racquet down at the ball and expect it to clear the net. Most successful servers hit up at the ball, even if they don’t realize it. Also, as for keeping the arm loose, if you think about it, a service motion is almost like pitching a baseball, except you’re throwing the racquet towards the sky rather than across home plate. Pitchers keep an incredibly loose arm and that’s why many ex-baseball players have very effective serves. I used to play baseball too and when I’m running into trouble, I think about what it’s like to really relax my arm. I’m basically just holding near the bottom of my handle during my serves and on a good day, my arm is so relaxed that it seems like there’s little preventing my racquet from falling out of my grip. (3) Am I using my body weight to help me move into the ball and into the court? – If I’m not at least a couple feet inside the baseline after I hit my serve, chances are I’m not using enough of my body weight to assist me with my serve. If you watch any professional tennis match, especially guys like Andy Roddick with huge serves, you’ll notice that they finish several feet across the baseline and then scamper back after they hit their serve in order to recover and get ready for the opponent’s return of serve. (4) Does my toss put the ball in a spot that enables me to get full extension on my serve and come into the court? – if not, I’m going to be off balance or hitting the ball from a position that doesn’t allow me to optimize my biomechanics. Short-arming the ball is one sure-fire way to *not* get enough power or spin on the ball. (5) Am I letting the weight of the racquet head do the work? – This is similar to #2. You want to think of your motion as being incredibly fluid; if the racquet is in the right place at impact, there should be enough swingweight to allow the racquet to contact the ball naturally. You should never feel like you’re forcing your serve. (6) Am I watching the ball? – A lot of the times, missed serves happen because you’re looking at the general direction of the ball but not at the ball itself. Really watch the ball and try to see it through the moment of impact. For your question about *books*, the “right” literature for you really depends on your level. There are a lot of books on tennis out there. If you’re just looking for basics and technique, I’ve heard Tennis Mastery by David Smith is good. For strategy, I like “Playing Winning Tennis with Perfect Strategy” by Julio Yacub and “Think to Win” by Allen Fox. I also keep a copy of “Winning Ugly” by Brad Gilbert in my bag when days where I’m playing especially bad and need a mental fix. I’d definitely get the Gilbert book if I were you, and then just focus on learning good technique by watching Youtube or FuzzyYellowBalls or something. At the same time, work on your footwork. Strategy and point construction matter more once you start playing at higher levels and when you’re just about evenly matched with your opponent from a technical perspective, but it’s hard to make much out of strategy if you don’t have the technique to execute it. There are a lot of things to think about, but take things one step at a time – otherwise your head will explode. Hope this helps…it’s great that you are asking these questions. Most people don’t have the attention to detail when it comes to this stuff, but that’s also why they can play for years and never progress beyond a beginner level.
One last point about serves: (7) Am I relaxed and not rushing myself through my entire motion? – yes, you do want to accelerate racquet head speed as you’re contacting the ball, but most of your serving wind-up should be pretty slow and fluid. Also make sure to complete your toss before you start the motion of accelerating your racquet from the drop to strike the ball. If you look at the pros, they start their service motion very slowly and always wait for the ball to approach its peak, before even doing much of anything with the hand that’s holding the racquet. Lots of things to think about, huh? Well, yes, tennis is a complicated game. But if you keep these things in mind and diligently study proper mechanics via having a good coach or watching online videos, you’ll be on your way to developing a solid serve. Oh yeah…as for how to determine whether you have a good coach – well, look at the stuff they’re talking about on FuzzyYellowBalls or Hi-TechTennis.com. There are concepts like topspin, “windshield wiper” forehand, continental grip on backhand, stepping into and getting your body weight behind your shots, pronation on serve, having a double-bend structure and not dropping your racquet face below your wrist level on volleys, and so forth. If you tell a coach about this and they have no idea what you’re talking about, chances are they either are used to teaching beginners and/or their game is outdated. These concepts are universally fundamental to modern tennis and everyone should really know about them, in my opinion. OK…done with writing about tennis for the night. Now off to reviewing more resumes and cover letters before going back to my “real job” in six hours. Goodnight!
thommo77 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I played the satellites/futures/challenger circuit > for a few years. My highest world ranking was > around 700 so I played in the “minor leagues” of > professional tennis. I also played college > tennis. I have also taught many tennis lessons to > people of various ages and skill levels. > > As far as learning to play the game, you need a > good teaching pro. Unfortunately, most tennis > pros want to make you have a good time (hit and > giggle type stuff) rather than teach you the > fundamentals. However, you need to find somebody > that will work on your technique and teach you the > correct way to hit ball with the correct grips > etc. It sounds like you are on the right track > with semi-western, continental serve grip etc. > You probably need some refining, but it sounds > like you have the basic skills. > > Have you tried the two handed backhand? That is what I usually use (although I have recently found out my grip was all wrong). I was just toying with a one handed backhand because I finally learned the proper grip for it! It is > quite a bit easier to learn that the one handed > and is often more consistent. Movement is also > key. You can make up for deficiences in technique > with excellent footwork and movement around the > court. Thus, getting back in shape will certainly > help your tennis game. Getting into shape is another reason I am interested in getting into tennis. It seems to be a game I could play well into my older years and stay in shape. > > I can post more later when I think of more.
I <3 two handed backhand. Seriously, spend some time in east compton and your one-handed backhand will rival Agassi, or Fabrice Tourre. lol
Numi - good posts about tennis. I will write more when I have some time. L2 is beating me up so I need to hit the books pretty hard over the next few days if I hope to pass this exam.
Thanks for all the information numi. I spent about 2.5 hours watching video on FYB last night. For better or worse, my personality doesn’t allow me to half ass anything. So if I am going to learn how to play tennis, I am going to learn how to play. It drives my wife nuts! I go overboard with everything I do (including the CFA). I also neglected to tell you that I took some lessons from a women’s world ranked player when I was VERY young (she was top 300 in the world). I was maybe 8. I do remember working on the serve with her - I can hear her saying to scratch my back with the racket. So I have the basic motion of the serve down but need a lot of work. I am also looking to get help from a former college roommate who has this nasty kick serve (maybe called a twist?). I played with him once and I was so confused by the way that thing bounced when it hit the ground! I would move in to hit it and it would bounce back into my body. I am not looking to learn that serve, but get help with overall mechanics. One other concern I have which comes from my background in golf. I am a fairly analytical person. That has served me well in learning the physics of golf and the “ball flight rules”. At times though it has hampered my actual playing performance because I have trouble turning off the nerdy part of my brain when playing. Is this a common problem in tennis too? How do you handle it (as you obviously have looked into the physics of the game)?
The key to learning is to approach every hit as if it was your test to get into qualifying for the open. If you don’t concentrate on your stroke movement you will never develop consistent hit. Just because it is ‘easier’ to hit a certain way it doesn’t mean it is the right way. Make sure to get your grip right from the get go too. Changing it later is very hard
mwvt9 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- \> One other concern I have which comes from my > background in golf. I am a fairly analytical > person. That has served me well in learning the > physics of golf and the “ball flight rules”. At > times though it has hampered my actual playing > performance because I have trouble turning off the > nerdy part of my brain when playing. Is this a > common problem in tennis too? How do you handle > it (as you obviously have looked into the physics > of the game)? When I started getting good at tennis I would start to plan my shot as soon as the ball left the other players raquet. This would give me about half a second to judge where I should be, what kind of shot I would have and, finally, what kind of shot I wanted to give back. I LOVE LOVE LOVE playing with spin, I would say I put backspin on 75% of my shots. I am a ‘net player’ which means I am better playing at the net. It’s a faster game but much more precise and much more control (in my opinion) over the tempo. Also, I prefer clay over hard court, I grew up on clay and I love the slide.
ASSet_MANagement Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I LOVE LOVE LOVE playing with spin, I would say I > put backspin on 75% of my shots. I am a ‘net > player’ which means I am better playing at the > net. It’s a faster game but much more precise and > much more control (in my opinion) over the tempo. > > > Also, I prefer clay over hard court, I grew up on > clay and I love the slide. The majority of shots with backspin? I thought today’s game was mostly dominated by heavy tops with some flat shots throw in. I just found out my local tennis place has 4 clay courts in addition to 4 hard courts. I have never played on clay, but would like to try.
mwvt9 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ASSet_MANagement Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > I LOVE LOVE LOVE playing with spin, I would say > I > > put backspin on 75% of my shots. I am a ‘net > > player’ which means I am better playing at the > > net. It’s a faster game but much more precise > and > > much more control (in my opinion) over the > tempo. > > > > > > Also, I prefer clay over hard court, I grew up > on > > clay and I love the slide. > > The majority of shots with backspin? I thought > today’s game was mostly dominated by heavy tops > with some flat shots throw in. > > I just found out my local tennis place has 4 clay > courts in addition to 4 hard courts. I have never > played on clay, but would like to try. Yep! Like I said, I play at the net, it’s the majority of my game. I rarely throw in backspin on my ground strokes. I apply heavy topspin to my ground strokes. The bad part is that since I apply so much sping my shots are usually very very low, which is not good. The sweet spot is 2-4 feet over the net and my shots are -2 - 2 feet over the net lol.
Nuppal how did it go with the girl u used to live by?
mwvt9 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks for all the information numi. I spent > about 2.5 hours watching video on FYB last night. > For better or worse, my personality doesn’t allow > me to half ass anything. So if I am going to > learn how to play tennis, I am going to learn how > to play. It drives my wife nuts! I go overboard > with everything I do (including the CFA). Tennis is a great game and one that can last you your lifetime. Your dedication now will pay off. > I also neglected to tell you that I took some > lessons from a women’s world ranked player when I > was VERY young (she was top 300 in the world). I > was maybe 8. I do remember working on the serve > with her - I can hear her saying to scratch my > back with the racket. So I have the basic motion > of the serve down but need a lot of work. That’s a good way to learn the basic motion of a serve, but in actuality, the racquet never comes behind your back – in fact, doing so would prevent you from getting the “whip” needed to launch the racquet up at the ball. If you look at hi-techtennis.com, you’ll see that whenever the pro’s serve, their racquet actually drops *parallel* to the side of their body as part of the windup, and NOT in a “back scratching” way. You are restricting your motion if you let the racquet fall that far off to the side of your body. The “back scratching” with the racquet as part of the serve is one of the most common misconceptions about tennis and should be avoided at all costs. > I am also looking to get help from a former > college roommate who has this nasty kick serve > (maybe called a twist?). I played with him once > and I was so confused by the way that thing > bounced when it hit the ground! I would move in > to hit it and it would bounce back into my body. > I am not looking to learn that serve, but get help > with overall mechanics. The kick serve is a good one to hit but first you have to learn to hit a decent flat serve and topspin serve. The kick serve will come more naturally once you’re able to track the ball better. The way you pronate through the ball and how you contact the ball on a kick serve is different from a normal serve, though the general mechanics are similar. You have to get comfortable with the mechanics of hitting a normal serve first. > > One other concern I have which comes from my > background in golf. I am a fairly analytical > person. That has served me well in learning the > physics of golf and the “ball flight rules”. At > times though it has hampered my actual playing > performance because I have trouble turning off the > nerdy part of my brain when playing. Is this a > common problem in tennis too? How do you handle > it (as you obviously have looked into the physics > of the game)? I’m a bit of a headcase when it comes to tennis as well, among other things. At some point you just need to get match experience, trust your technique and let it rip. I find that when I start overanalyzing things, I’m best off just swinging harder in a controlled way and trusting my skill and understanding of the game as opposed to holding back and being tentative.
I’m a regular tennis player and also hit the weights at the gym often. One thing I like less about tennis is that (as a right hander), it builds more my right side (right arm & pec especially).