I sit down at 1/2NL and my first pocket: QsKs, 5 players limpted in preflop. Flop AsJs8c, i bet 40, 3 people fold, 1 called, turn 9s, i check, my opp checks, river A, i push all in (opp had short stack), get called with AJ. Down 160 in the first hand at the table. OUCH. why didn’t i bet turn??? AWFUL
you probably would have been called on the turn. Unlucky hand.
mp2438 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > you probably would have been called on the turn. > Unlucky hand. Agreed. That dude wouldn’t have folded with top two pair…
Oh well, not the first time i get owned like this.
160 and done.
comp_sci_kid Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Oh well, not the first time i get owned like this. Could’ve been worse, Phil Hellmuth could’ve ICED you.
higgmond Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > comp_sci_kid Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Oh well, not the first time i get owned like > this. > > > Could’ve been worse, Phil Hellmuth could’ve ICED > you. Lol
comp_sci_kid Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I sit down at 1/2NL and my first pocket: QsKs, 5 > players limpted in preflop. Flop AsJs8c, i bet 40, > 3 people fold, 1 called, turn 9s, i check, my opp > checks, river A, i push all in (opp had short > stack), get called with AJ. Down 160 in the first > hand at the table. OUCH. why didn’t i bet turn??? > AWFUL The check on the turn isn’t horrible, as you could be constructing a nice story of Q-K who missed his gutshot when the river drops a brick. That being said, anytime you’re trying to play a big pot without the stone cold nuts, you’re taking a chance, and when that “A” drops on the river, there should’ve been a LOUD voice in your brain that your opponent has AT WORST three aces, or (less likely, but within the realm of possiblity) just boated up. Even though the fact that he limped pre-flop would seem to take A-K and A-Q off the table, A-J on down are all still very realistic probabilities there. Anyhow, based on a smooth call on the flop, it’s kinda hard to put him on A-J or A-8 (if it makes you feel any better, his non-raise on the flop is pretty pathetic poker as well) - unless he’s scared of a set of eights (unlikely that anyone would bet out their set that hard in a limped pot from early position), there’s ZERO reason to put you on A-A or J-J in a limped pot, which means that you’re either on a pair of eights and a flush draw, a “reasonable” ace, J-8, or a large flush draw - in ANY of these scenarios, his correct play is to re-raise you. Wow, doing this hand analysis and realizing that you both viciously misplayed your respective hands.
Continuing on with this, WTF was the point of going all-in? If you really thought you had the best hand, a nice $80-$100 value bet would be the move there to get paid off. Going all-in basically ensures that you’ll only “get paid off” if you lose, unless you’re playing with absolute morons (reasonably, but still not likely, even at 1-2 tables) who might pay you off with a set of aces or a weaker flush. Pretty horrible strategy right there (no offense). In summary, with how he played the hand, he (inadvertently, I’m sure) made it pretty hard to put him on a range, so it’s “understandable” (poor play and not recommended, but “understandable”) that you’d check the turn and try to get paid off large WHEN AND IF the river bricked. When the river didn’t brick, you need to show some savvy there, check, and re-evaluate when he inevitably makes his wager. Whereas you still lose money, you don’t lose it all. A way to prevent alll of this would’ve been to fire a large bullet on the turn - “it’s better to win a small pot than lose a big pot”.
BTW, what possessed you to bet $40 into a $10 pot? That’s pretty silly, kid.
i agree that i should’ve checked the river, but i was taken away by my flush - which ofcourse was a mistake. I actually went all in hoping i put him on 3 Aces, i didn’t think he hit a boat. Given that 1/2 is usually a loose - agressive game, i expected a call. Anyhow, why did i bet 40 into a pot? That is because if i didn’t some one else would and i would have to call, and if i wouldn’t hit the turn, i would be in trouble. Anyone holding an As would’ve bet the flop, i wanted to eliminate them by showing a strong hand - either a set or flush + straight draw - which was my case.
comp_sci_kid Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > i agree that i should’ve checked the river, but i > was taken away by my flush - which ofcourse was a > mistake. I actually went all in hoping i put him > on 3 Aces, i didn’t think he hit a boat. Given > that 1/2 is usually a loose - agressive game, i > expected a call. > > Anyhow, why did i bet 40 into a pot? That is > because if i didn’t some one else would and i > would have to call, and if i wouldn’t hit the > turn, i would be in trouble. Anyone holding an As > would’ve bet the flop, i wanted to eliminate them > by showing a strong hand - either a set or flush + > straight draw - which was my case. I didn’t ask why you bet the flop (I would’ve either bet out or check-raised someone who bet behind me), I’m curious as to why you felt the need to bet 4X the pot on the flop - that’s ludicrous. Anything more than 75% of the pot is generally a ludicrous amount to bet unless it’s on the river and you’re either bluffing your ass off or trying to make it look like you’re betting your ass off. A simple $10 bet (100% of the pot) would’ve been sufficient there to see where you stood, and also allows you to call a medium-sized raise (if you so choose to, although you’re out of position). The ridiculous size of your bet really screws you if the A-J plays the hand correctly, which is to raise you - he raises to $140 off of your $40 bet, and now you’re either all-in on a draw or you fold and you’re out $40 that you didn’t need to lose. Pretty poor strategy.
skillionaire, i dont think you ever played 1/2 tables in a casino before. 10 bet is a joke in loose aggresive game and will generate plenty of callers. As i said, my goal was to push people out of the pot, you can call it a semi-bluff, but chances are i would get reraised if i would bet just 10, and then i would have to fold.
comp_sci_kid Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > skillionaire, i dont think you ever played 1/2 > tables in a casino before. Wow. Lol…have a nice day.
skillionaire Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > comp_sci_kid Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > skillionaire, i dont think you ever played 1/2 > > tables in a casino before. > > Wow. > > Lol…have a nice day. umm… please tell me i am wrong and you get people to fold with $10 bets into the pot? I played numerous times and i dont think i ever was at the table where people cared about pot odds. All that mattered was the bet relative to their stack size, which on average was $200. Anyway didn’t mean to offend you
comp_sci_kid Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > skillionaire Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > comp_sci_kid Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > skillionaire, i dont think you ever played > 1/2 > > > tables in a casino before. > > > > Wow. > > > > Lol…have a nice day. > > > umm… please tell me i am wrong and you get > people to fold with $10 bets into the pot? I > played numerous times and i dont think i ever was > at the table where people cared about pot odds. > All that mattered was the bet relative to their > stack size, which on average was $200. > > Anyway didn’t mean to offend you I started sneaking into casinos (mainly the Trop) down in AC when I was 17. To answer your question, yes, a $10 bet will get LOTS of people to fold who totally missed the flop, but here’s a question for ya - why are you trying to get people to fold? When I have the best draw available, I’m trying to build a pot with as many people as possible to get paid off, but that’s just me (and a profitable way to play poker). If you “only” bet $10 there, maybe you get a smaller draw to call, maybe a pair of jacks comes along for the ride, and then you’ve got three callers instead of one - why would you want to play a draw out of position heads up??? I’m sorry dude, but that makes zero sense (in a limped pot, no less). Anyhow, no offense taken and good luck at the tables.
i am sure it was a right way to play… since i lost the pot obviously i didnt do the right thing
comp_sci_kid Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > i am sure it was a right way to play… since i > lost the pot obviously i didnt do the right thing You can do the absolute right thing and still lose a pot.
^ I agree. Skill - I’ve been unfortunate enough to play by your mentality (not bet > 75% of the pot) and have players drunk enough to call me and get lucky at the end. There are plenty of players who don’t play by the books and quite frankly suck at calculations and the game, and those are the ones you have to be afraid of. More often than not I’ve seen these guys give the $10 on the flop just to chase running diamonds or fish a set with a small pair. I’d say $40 was overaggressive, but $10 might have been too low. Recall how many $1-2 games you’ve played in which the pot was easily $200+.
mp2438 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ^ I agree. > > Skill - I’ve been unfortunate enough to play by > your mentality (not bet > 75% of the pot) and have > players drunk enough to call me and get lucky at > the end. There are plenty of players who don’t > play by the books and quite frankly suck at > calculations and the game, and those are the ones > you have to be afraid of. More often than not I’ve > seen these guys give the $10 on the flop just to > chase running diamonds or fish a set with a small > pair. > > I’d say $40 was overaggressive, but $10 might have > been too low. Recall how many $1-2 games you’ve > played in which the pot was easily $200+. The mistake that you both (all) seem to be falling into is to play down to your competition - it’s precisely BECAUSE they’re such shitty players that those games are so easily dominated by anyone who knows what they’re doing. If shitty players wanna chase you down, why would you stop them? Again, YOU’RE DRAWING TO THE BEST HAND. I’d want the entire table to call my $10 bet, because now I’ve got $10 into a ~$100 pot and I’ve got 12 outs to make the stone cold nuts (9 spades and three tens). That’s about a (slightly less, but close enough) 50% chance of winning the pot, and you’ve put in 10% of the money. That kinda works for me. The thing that I certainly wouldn’t do would BE TO BET $40 OUT OF POSITION ON A DRAW INTO A $10 POT THAT I HAVE $2 INVESTED IN. That’s probably the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. 1) To try to get “people out of the pot” when you’re holding a strong draw is moronic 2) To bet 4X the pot into a limped hand with four people behind you is moronic 3) To check the turn is moronic 4) To go all-in when the board pairs on the river is moronic 5) To limp for $2 and then lead out with a bet of $40 isn’t even moronic - I honestly lack the word for that move Anyways, this horse has been kicked enough…