I got a question for the older guys on here who’ve been in industry a while. How important are credentials? I understand this is a website for the CFA and I’m very determined to gain my charter, but what do multiple credentials mean. I come from an accounting background and have eligibility to sit for the CPA exam. I’ve talked to people and they basically suggest getting the credentials for what you want to do. So I wonder, in your experience what happens to these people? Do people even care? I feel like there would even be a little resentment to someone who is CPA, CFA, FRM, JD, MBA. Am I wrong? What credentials compliment one another? When is it too much or add no value?
Definitely such a thing as too many. I may get the FRM and CAIA at some point, but if I do I won’t put them no business cards, or beside my name, I’ll just note them at the bottom of my resume. That way you have them if they’re relevant to a discussion, but you’re not putting them out there to be used against you. In most cases however, I’d say just having one good one like the CFA is enough.
lxwarr30 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I feel like there would even > be a little resentment to someone who is CPA, CFA, > FRM, JD, MBA. Am I wrong? What credentials > compliment one another? When is it too much or add > no value? I don’t think people are “resented” for having too many certifications – not sure how that would be the case – but there is a signaling effect in that someone that has all these certifications probably comes across as unfocused. I think the ROI for these things, as you said, relates to the relevance of the degree to your professional field. There are certain industries where you’re required to have the certification to practice (i.e. JD for law, CPA for accounting, etc.) but in other cases, the degrees can still add value. Anyway, I feel like the answer to this question depends on what field you’re in but the value of the certifications should be pretty self-evident.
i don’t think its ‘resentment’ - i think its wondering how someone has the time to do all of those things if they actually have a job.
When I say resentment I guess that was strong. I just wonder. Won’t people assume you’re compensating for some sort of deficiency in your education or personality? One good credential (MBA or CFA) seems like all you really need to. Do any of you know a person that has these excessive designations? Does their job reflect their certifications?
I know a few MBA/Ph.D.'s and MBA/MD’s, and several dozen JD/MBA’s that I go to school with. These degrees are pretty complementary though, and even though the people I know from the JD/MBA route who are going into business say they don’t really use their JD, they do value the intellectual pursuit of the degree. I can respect that. However, I don’t know too many people that just collect certifications. Of course, most of my close contacts are already in the industry anyway so if they hadn’t gotten their CFA in their younger days, they probably don’t have reason to get it at this point. Again, to me it’s really quite obvious that there are very few jobs that would require, for the sake of argument, an MBA / JD / FRM / CFA.
Numi. How do employers view the FRM/CAIA. Do you think a 23 year old with no formal finance experience (financial services), but works at a reputable company (F500) could gain an in to the industry by taking it? I guess my main question is… can you “study” your way into the business (excluding college because i’m passed that)? I’m sort of hoping that with passing a few CFA and some decent work experience someone will give me a shot. Do you think it would be worth it in my circumstances to pursue the FRM or CAIA as well or is that overkill?
These things help, but just don’t expect them to be enough on their own. The training means you’re better able to discuss financial issues with financial professionals. It’s also not absolutely necessary to have them all on your resume. The resume is to present whatever you think is relevant and presents you well to a potential employer. It should not be deceptive, but it doesn’t have to include absolutely everything you’ve ever done. If you’ve been unemployed, upgrading your skills or learning something new is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. What you don’t want people to think is that you’re just a letter collector.
It’s been discussed here, but I think the chief concern is people with a ton of designations tend to be of the overly academic mindset. The type of people who are book smart, and a little restless / easily bored and maybe don’t do so well in a practical work setting. They either have difficultly simplifying or distilling their work into usable content or in many cases, just the fact that they’re off pursuing somewhat frivolous certifications says they’re not putting maximum effort / focus into their work.
So it sounds as if you guys are saying “F the others, CFA is the gold standard”
They are saying there is a diminishing marginal benefit to each certification outside of top MBA and CFA. But that’s really for people with substantial experience in the field. For young guys though who are looking to break in…I would think CFA is probably best…
I think a lot of it matters on how your career progresses. I also started out in accounting and even though I knew I didn’t want to be an accountant at the time I knew that if I ever wanted to be a CFO or manage the accounting functions the CPA license would be very valuable. So I ended up getting it and I still think it was a smart move. I have since moved to an analyst role dealing more with M&A and corporate finance, so I am now pursuing the CFA to concentrate on my valuation experience. There should be a reason to pursue the designations and not just to have a JD certificate on your wall.
lxwarr30 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > So it sounds as if you guys are saying “F the > others, CFA is the gold standard” That’s not what I’m saying…maybe it is for some people but not for me. I don’t have the CFA or whatever. Just enjoy investing and helping other eager candidates break into the industry
numi Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > lxwarr30 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > I feel like there would even > > be a little resentment to someone who is CPA, > CFA, > > FRM, JD, MBA. Am I wrong? What credentials > > compliment one another? When is it too much or > add > > no value? > > I don’t think people are “resented” for having too > many certifications – not sure how that would be > the case – but there is a signaling effect in > that someone that has all these certifications > probably comes across as unfocused. I think the > ROI for these things, as you said, relates to the > relevance of the degree to your professional > field. There are certain industries where you’re > required to have the certification to practice > (i.e. JD for law, CPA for accounting, etc.) but in > other cases, the degrees can still add value. > > Anyway, I feel like the answer to this question > depends on what field you’re in but the value of > the certifications should be pretty self-evident. Mmmmh. I would believe you if I didn’t know you failed CFA level II. Nothing wrong with having many certifications.
numi Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > lxwarr30 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > So it sounds as if you guys are saying “F the > > others, CFA is the gold standard” > > That’s not what I’m saying…maybe it is for some > people but not for me. I don’t have the CFA or > whatever. Just enjoy investing and helping other > eager candidates break into the industry You don’t have your charter? Are you pursuing it? If not why do you spend so much time on here?
^ He is the captain, and awesome too.
^---- +1
No, not pursuing my charter, just enjoy the discussions about investing and careers here and trying to provide a perspective as someone that has worked in equity research, private equity and now at a hedge fund without the need for the CFA. JOE2010, perhaps it’s not obvious to you but the very fact that I have developed careers in the aforementioned fields without the charter actually strengthens the commonly held belief that credentials are not the be-all and end-all, as opposed to weakening it. Not earning the charter also didn’t hinder me from getting into a top 3 business school, but who knows, maybe the admissions committees have it all wrong? So in fact, you actually do agree with my assessment unless you yourself are one of those “credential collectors.”
> > Mmmmh. I would believe you if I didn’t know you > failed CFA level II. Nothing wrong with having > many certifications. He is stating his opinion, if you don’t find someone’s comments helpful, don’t comment, or write your own, there’s no need to bring up their performance on the exam as your rebuttal…
Dmiller385 – I think the important takeaway here is that many people don’t have the charter or other credentials and they do fine in the industry. Most people on this forum, in contrast, have not worked in finance before so they harbor a potentially misguided belief that the CFA is a requirement for the field. I’ve always been a staunch advocate of gaining relevant work experience first and foremost, and I think that’s consistent with the fact that a number of people I’ve advised on this forum have gotten into research or banking without the CFA. I don’t really even hide the fact that I didn’t pass Level II, and don’t make any excuses about it either (though at the time, I was also in the process of interviewing for private equity jobs where the charter is not important). I think that if not earning the charter is my biggest professional shortcoming, I can definitely live with that and it’s a testament to the many people who’ve also done well in the industry without the charter.