Career Advice - ER, IB, PE, etc.

Water Cooler Careers
#1

Does anyone have any good career advice related to breaking into buy side/sell side ER, IB, or PE?? I really need some help and I feel like I’m really struggling to break into the industry. Any advice or guidance would be greatly appreciated!

My Background:

  • Finishing up MBA from decent university (not top 25)

  • CFA Level II Candidate (just sat for Level II on Saturday)

  • Employed at PwC

  • Competed in the CFA Institute Investment Research Challenge and was Local Round Champion and participated in Americas Regional Competition (Involved developing and presenting a sell-side equity research report)

  • Planning to take CAIA Level I in the fall

#2

how long were you at PWC and was that your only job out of undergrad?

#3

What do you do for PWC?

#4

Read the articles in my signature

#5

I also worked for Deloitte for about a year. Basically, I’ve just done a lot of accounting. I’m in Advisory at PwC, but it’s more of a combination between Audit and Consulting. I definitely have a good understanding of accounting guidance and the financial statements, but it seems like the investment community could care a less. I feel like the two things holding me back are 1) Internship/Experience and 2) a legit school on my résumé.

I’ve tried attaching my sell side report to my cover letter, but I haven’t had a lot of calls from recruiters. I had a phone interview with a mutual fund company two weeks ago but they decided not to move forward with me. Not sure if I was asking too much (I said mid 80s/low 90s) or what happened.

I’m 28 and everyone is supportive of me so making a significant change isn’t that difficult. I’m just not sure what I’m missing and what I need to do to separate myself from other job candidates. I even tried using my athletic experience (ran XC and track in college) but that doesn’t do much either.

#6

the problem is you’re basically seen as an accountant. which sorry to say, doesn’t appeal a great deal. your best bet may be a good MBA program, I’ve personally seen a few accountants transition this way.

#7

*couldn’t care less

#8

Thanks, sorry for the typo. I respectfully disagree because there has to be a firm that sees value in my current skill set. I would think my success in the CFA Institute Investment Research Challenge would carry some weight. I’ve performed a full valuation and report, and interviewed management about capital structure, Capex, strategy, the industry, etc. I legit did the work of a sell side analyst for the competition. Moreover, the stock I valued not only hit my price target, but it’s been climbing since my initiation of coverage and buy recommendation. Someone out there has to see value in this experience, right? In regards to accounting, that’s the staple for analyzing a firm. If you don’t understand the foundation of the statements and the preparation of financial reports, what use is your analysis to an investor?? You can’t tell me that my accounting knowledge is completely overlooked. Maybe I’m completely off base, but I’m not willing to concede to “you’ll always be viewed as an accountant.” There has to be a way to change the perception or I have to believe their are firms that will give me a shot.

#9

Go to a good MBA program…or join the accounting department (ops) at a PE firm and try to transition to the investment side once you complete the CFA program…being a level 2 candidate really will not help you…much less being a CAIA level 1 candidate…or CAIA charterholder for that matter. I dont think that research challenge holds weight…people (if any) value the CFA because of it’s “prestige” not because of any knowledge gained…the charter basically says “I have the ability to learn stuff in this field”…not “I know stuff in this field”…and much less for PE.

#10

Top MBA isn’t an option since you’re about to finish a MBA, I think it’s rare top schools take already MBAs, but doesn’t sound like it’s something you were entertaining anyways. What are you doing to network? That is the most important thing for you, whatever time you plan on spending for CAIA skip that and spend it networking. Has anyone you know at PwC made the move to any of the industries of interest? Someone with a similar background may be more willing to hire you. what do you want to do? ER, PE, or IB? They don’t look for the same types of candidates from my understanding, I can really only speak to ER but if I were hiring in IB and I saw you were going for CFA & CAIA that would be more of a negative than positive, Pretty sure neither matter in banking. Here is your problem if I want to hire an ER associate with no experience I can hire someone out of upenn undergrad or similar school for cheaper than you and train them just as easy as I can train you. Why should I hire you instead of them? This is a question you should ask yourself and be able to answer and convey to someone in a hiring position. If you aren’t networking and not making a personal connection with people and giving them a reason to hire you, a majority of the time a hiring manager is going to pick the upenn undergrad with internship experience over a level 2 cfa candidate with an accounting background. There are thousands of level 2 candidates without experience, you need to convince someone to give you a chance over the hypothetical upenn undergrad. Fair or not for the most part I don’t think ER, PE, and IB care about a MBA outside the top10/15 let alone top 25. Find people who have gone from accounting to ER, talk to them and get ther advice and hopefully someone will want to help you. Maybe try to look at smaller value oriented shops if you are cold calling,they may be more inclined to hire an accountant.

#11

Thanks galan I really appreciate the feedback. Regarding networking, the CFA Institute Investment Research Competition provided me with a lot of networking opportunities and I met a lot of individuals working buy side or sell side. Other than the competition, I haven’t done much networking. Where would I go? Would you suggest attending random CFA Society events? The problem is that I’m in DC and the jobs are scarce.

Honestly, I would probably enjoy ER a lot more than IB. Also, I think the competition is at least something I have under my belt related to ER that I can speak to in interviews. I’ve worked with Capital IQ, Ibbotson Valuation Edition Yearbooks, Duff & Phelps Risk Premium Report, Bloomberg, and Pratt Stats. I gained valuable experience interviewing management, and developing/defending a recommendation. Also, I met a woman during the competition who teaches a U of Missouri and she said one of her students competed in the competition, presented the report to an employer, got an interview, and ended up beating out an Ivy grad for a sell side job at a good firm.

I’m definitely willing to take a pay cut though so I don’t think that would be an issue. It’s what I want to do so I don’t care about pay as much. But the reason I should be hired over a UPenn grad is I have experience developing a financial model and performing a valuation via the competition, I have an excellent understanding of the financial statements (I’m willing to go toe-to-toe with an Ivy grad), my learning curve wouldn’t be as steep as an undergrad because I’m familiar with a dynamic, high performing culture, and my soft skill are probably more advanced from a communication and presentation prespective (I know your question was rhetorical but wanted to provide an answer).

Also, it never hurts to be hunger. Who would you rather have on your team, Guy A who gets the job because he’s Ivy and does a consistently solid job or Guy B who is more or less the underdog coming from a non-Ivy, but is hunger and willing to do whatever it takes to get on the team, absorb everything like a sponge, and stop at nothing to live out his dream? It’s like a classic sports story. I’m Guy B and I’m telling you I will do whatever it takes. If I have to race a marathon, develop a financial model, and recite Shakespeare to get in the door then I’m going to do it.

I completely agree with you though. I’m at a HUGE disadvantage not going to a better MBA program, but I don’t think it’s a ultimate deal breaker. I did what you said and reached out to a former PwC alum who works at Oppenheimer doing investment banking to get his feedback.

What else would you recommend to break into ER? I’m very different than the typical PwCer, my undergrad was actually Finance and I came into the firm by way of the Advisory practice, but, as I mentioned, everything I do is basically audit with a management consulting twist.

#12

Good for you DP013 for not listening to naysayers. Jerry Steinfeld said once that if someone asked him if he thought they could become a comedian he would always tell them no, regardless of how good they were. He knew that the person really passionate about making it as a comedian would continue anyway. That’s what it takes to be successful.

#13

I would not listen to the naysayers either. You have a respectable background being employed at two of the big four accounting firms. People in the United Kingdom often do 3 years at one of the big four and complete their accounting degree and then transition to investment banking and they are a particularly sought after commodity. My guess is that your best bet is pursue opportunities in equity research given your knowledge of accounting or possibly a role in credit. I think you will find it harder to transition into some of the deal type roles in IB. Depends what you want really?

#14

If you can convince someone you really as as “hungry” for it as you claim and willing to take pay cut and crunch it out like other junior folks, then yea there’s a chance you’ll get somewhere.

The issue is getting into the interview, which may be more of a challenge since you don’t fit the profile of what ER looks for. you’ll have to go the networking route, which is more trial/error

#15

Did you read the articles in my signature yet? If not, I think you should have a look.

Your determination will be helpful in so far as getting a job, but not as much as you think because people who really want to get into ER are all hungry. I know, because I used to hire for ER and work with clients every day to get jobs in ER. However, the reasons you mention below do not necessarily make you advantaged over a Wharton grad – you are presuming that they also do not have these skills that you mention, which is typically not the case, and plus they have a Wharton degree which never hurts. If you believe the following to be true, then I hate to break it to you but you are likely underestimating your competition.

“But the reason I should be hired over a UPenn grad is I have experience developing a financial model and performing a valuation via the competition, I have an excellent understanding of the financial statements (I’m willing to go toe-to-toe with an Ivy grad), my learning curve wouldn’t be as steep as an undergrad because I’m familiar with a dynamic, high performing culture, and my soft skill are probably more advanced from a communication and presentation prespective (I know your question was rhetorical but wanted to provide an answer).”

I like to be encouraging as I do with anyone pursuing their career aspirations, but it is worth also considering what Ramos4rm and itera have said as they are correct. A balanced perspective is typically the best one.

#16

Yes I did read the article numi it was very insightful and I really appreciate you sharing your advice and opinions with me. You have been helpful as I make sense of everything. As you mentioned, I’m trying to keep a balanced approach to the process and be mindful of my strengths and weakness. You might be right about underestimating my competition, but I can provide one additional response to the hypothetical me vs UPenn grad scenario. There was an article I read recently and it was related to the reasons firms should hire athletes. I can say with humility and confidence that I understand what it takes to be the best and not give up because I am one of those athletes.

Has the UPenn guy won a marathon or competed against our nation’s best? Has he trained with Olympians and Olympic trials atheletes? Has he spent hours and hours chasing after something that required great deals of sacrifice, which meant forgetting about everything to be better than the next guy? Rolled out of bed when it’s dark, cold, and rainy when he didn’t want to, but knew deep down inside he had to in order to better? Has he literally run mountains, pushed his body to it’s limits, and trained in spite of set backs or failures? Has he experienced the pain and the reward of succeeding and failing when everything is on the line and everyone is counting on you?

I could go on and obviously we aren’t engaging in a physical competition, but I say all this because I have acquired characteristics and attributes that, I believe, very few people truly understand unless they have competed at the highest level. I believe the discipline, confidence, drive, humility, strength, and leadership from my experiences as an elite athlete truly separate me from others.

You want to hire a UPenn grad, why? It’s a name and the name doesn’t make the person the person makes the name. I’ve learned what it means to persevere and endure. Maybe I’m still naive, but I believe their are certain things that mold and shape a person’s character beyond a school and a bunch of books. And yes, I do understand other life experiences shape and form the qualities mentioned. However, I believe most of the people with those attributes, like myself, are not easily found.

The worst thing you can do is be content with the status quo. While I agree that a balanced approach is necessary in order to have a holistic understanding of the situation, it doesn’t mean I can’t change the situation. I always told HS kids at a Nike Running Camp I helped lead that there are factors you can change and factors you can’t change. You can’t change the weather or your competition, but you can change how you respond to them.

#17

I have had the good fortune of meeting a number of pretty spectacular and accomplished people in my life. In fact, I went to school with many Olympic athletes myself, both as an undergraduate and for my MBA, so I know. As a former college athlete myself, I can relate, and perhaps it is I that am privileged to have been able to breathe some of this ‘rarefied air.’ I’m sure there are many people out there that will tell you because you have some great athletic gift that you will be successful in other walks of life, so let’s consider a slightly different perspective.

Specifically, many people have had experiences that have shaped their lives, so to say that somehow you had an experience that you think is important to you and that others haven’t had such formative experience themselves tells me you are likely underestimating your competition. And, from a hiring perspective, there are three basic things that matter to most employers: (1) can you do the job and (2) do you have the right expectations such that (3) you can fit in and stand out. If you can relate your extracurricular experiences to that role, great, but by your own description you aren’t at that point yet, which means tactically there is something missing in the way you are pursuing your job search or in the way you are perceiving your own strengths and weaknesses.

I understand your argument about the intangibles, and when I myself interview at places, I make this argument that I have the intangibles to excel as forcefully as I can. You can go on and on, but you don’t have to. I can’t tell if you’re saying what you’re saying because you’re confident or naive, but I think it’s a little of both. But the truth is, I just don’t know.

I don’t know you from Adam or the other myriad of supposedly accomplished people that really want to become a research analyst, and therefore on some level, it seems pointless to discuss the merits or de-merits of establishing some type of correlation between athletic achievement and excellence in other areas of life. It would be different, perhaps, if I got to know you. But the point is, being an “Olympic” athlete doesn’t make one qualified to be a great research analyst, nor is the converse true, namely that being a great research analyst would ever qualify someone to be an Olympic athlete. Same applies to investment banking, private equity and hedge funds, all of which are industries I have worked in.

The sooner you can accept this as a probable reality and focus on developing the skills (i.e. you train yourself to do just about everything on the job description, and also learn to “talk the talk”) and connections (i.e. people that help you get in the door) that are more immediately monetizable, the better off you will be in your job search. Anyway, not trying to rain on your parade or anything, as it sounds like you are doing some of these things already. A balanced approach and thoughtful self-assessment is the method I use to advise my clients on getting into front-office finance. It’s not for everyone, but at least from what my LinkedIn recommendations tell me, this approach has worked pretty well.

#18

Well articulated numi and again I really appreciate the feedback. And just to clarify, I’m not trying to insinuate that athletic achievements have a direct correlation to the work of an equity research analyst or vice versa. I also understand that possessing a high degree of talent and success in one field automatically translates into similiar success in another. Moreover, let’s be honest not everyone applying for an ER position has the same experiences and achievements. I was merely referring to the intangible attributes that I believe enable me to stand out. However, I do understand what you’re saying.

That being said, how do I address those 3 points you mentioned? Basically, you’re making it seem like there is no way to truly differentiate yourself unless you A) go to an Ivy or B) have some internship or experience that is really just predicated on being an Ivy grad (or top10/15 school). From what you’re saying I am essentially screwed. Maybe I’m not quite understanding, but you said to listen to the other posters and face that I’m just seen as an accountant. I’m not disagreeing, but that doesn’t mean I can’t use my experience and skill set to change that perception.

#19

I would give you half a raised eyebrow and an “interesting” comment after all that athletic mumbo jumbo you spent so much time talking about above.

you’re focusing way too much on those intangibles, that’s under 5% or less that gets you the job, and at best, it differentiaties you from someone that is like you that doesn’t have it (which is also rare), or if you get lucky and land an interviewer that’s really into that stuff (which again, is not very common)

the matter of fact is that new grads are generally preferrable because the odds are much more highly likely that they are very hungry, eager to grind and slave, willing to learn, unlikely to have any tiedowns (family, kids), have no experience with office politics, and generally don’t understand pushing back.

#20

Well, I haven’t seen your resume, cover letter or research report, but all of these things matter a heck of a lot more than your extracurriculars. Chances are, any number of these things, and/or lack of relevant connections and general resourcefulness about your job search, are holding you back. One such example might be your reference to “CFA Institute Investment Research Challenge” – I don’t know what this is, which may not mean much on the surface since there are a lot of things I don’t know about. However, given that I have worked in the industry many years including my current employment at a hedge fund, and I have never met anyone that has participated on this competition, it doesn’t seem like a big deal at all.

I think there are a lot of things that you are probably doing wrong, but since I don’t offer specific consultations on the forum to anyone’s personal circumstances (it would be antithetic to my career coaching practice), I just don’t know enough about your situation.

I will say that at least you are asking many of the right questions, and in the process you seem to be getting some decent answers. However, since you understand a sport analogy, here is basically what you are doing right now: you are taking a YouTube video of yourself showing clips of whatever best elements of your game you think you have, but haven’t shown much footage of your weaknesses and are asking a bunch of people to comment on your skills based on a very limited snapshot. Moreover, since nobody here is really your coach, nobody will give you more specific or actionable commentary due to personal and/or professional reasons.