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I don’t even have my name at the top of my resume, it just says CFA Charterholder.

I find that my name is useless information that says nothing about my skills or experience so I only include it if specifically asked.

Oviously this whole post is a joke, but it was intended to make a point that it is silly to argue about how someone introduces themselves, cat fancier or not.

bchad wrote:

I have a Ph.D. (something longtime AFers know and which others can possibly read between the lines, but which I almost never bring up here, unless it’s directly relevant).  I generally wince when being introduced in public as Dr. Bchad.  I feel that I shouldn’t use the term Dr. unless I am actually able to resuccitate a patient having a heart attack on a plane.

Still, it can feel nice now and then when people call me Dr. Bchad, because it feels like someone recognizes that it took a lot of work to get where I am, but I’m never the initiator of the term “Dr.”, and I don’t have Dr. on any of my business cards.  I do have Ph.D. on them, however, and CFA (though I need to pay my dues again, darnit).

I don’t come up to people at conferences and say, “Hi, I’m Bchad, Ph.D.”  But if we exchange business cards, the card will have Ph.D. on it.  It’s not clear to me whether the resume benefits from Ph.D. at the top, though it does benefit from CFA.  Some people want to see the Ph.D. some people say hide it because weaker personalities get intimidated by it and start to feel they have something to prove.  It’s really a crap shoot as to whether it helps or doesn’t.

In the financial world, there are so many hucksters, crooks, and dressed-up dolts around, that things like CFA and CPA do communicate useful business information, as opposed to someone at the local Bank of America branch who was just hired off the street to sell the Banks’s brand of high-fee mutual fund (just look at 2013’s performance!).  With Ph.D. it’s a bit trickeir.  It matters whether the Ph.D. is in finance, economics, or literature.  I would advise not having the Ph.D. on the card if you would sound silly or irrelevant when talking about the subject matter.

Nothing means that people who don’t have these designations can’t be smart and accomplished and/or have talent too… perhaps more talent.  It’s just that they will show it in additional ways.

As you get along in your career, the designations matter less to you personally, but sometimes your organization wants to have the letters out there to hold out to their clients.  My employer wants Ph.D. and CFA on my stuff because they want materials I produce to carry the extra weight of someone who has accomplished some things that are widely acknowledged as requiring degrees of knowledge, talent, and dedication.  

I don’t mind so much, because I came to this industry late in my career and so in some ways I am behind the curve relative to people of a similar age.  For me, it’s nice to have those there because it reminds people that even if I am not as high up in the hierarchy as other people at my stage of life, it is not because I haven’t done anything with my life, or that I started at age 21 and only managed to climb this high in my career.

I think you think that having letters and designations on your business materials is arrogant, when in fact, that’s precisely what the conventions are for.  If I tried to pick up women in a bar by saying “yeah baby, I’m a charterholder and doctor!”  Yes, that would be a douchey thing to do, but that’s not what I (or even most people with designations of some sort) do.

Though, I have to admit that some women did get extra excited when I said I was a professor.  Apparently the “student seduces professor” fantasy is a pretty common and powerful one.  It was really weird one night when this middle school teacher took me home, and it was clear that what was really getting her off was this idea of doing a professor…  Fun… but weird…

That’s a nice, well-thoughtout writeup. Thanks for taking the time. Still, however, I know you said you dont, but many people do introduce themselves as “Dr John Smith”, so it really is effectively the same as saying “Yeah baby im a doctor” at the bar. It’s just a different way of doing it. And still, one can have it on their business card without it being a part of their name. That’s what gets me, it’s the part of the name part. That people could just have a short little line on the card with their major qualifications and experience, but instead put it as their name. Why put CFA after one’s name and not “10 years experience as a fortune 500 CEO” or something like that? That is more important, valuable, and better than a CFA or CPA license, but people want to make CFA and CPA a part of their name instead for some reason.

Linkedin is just a twist on OkCupid… learn how to use cause it is gold.

elcoelhon wrote:

Linkedin is just a twist on OkCupid… learn how to use cause it is gold.

What’s the proper way to use it?

I’m not sure you’ve noticed, but space is at a premium on business cards.  There are only so many lines available to communicate. 

I think you’re reading too much into the “make it part of the name.”  These things vary by culture and location.

In Germany, a woman who marries a university professor is known as “Frau Professor Doktor Hans Everywhere,” even if she’s a child bride imported from Haram Boku.

In the US South, people seem to use the Dr. prefix a lot more.  I think the South values deferential traditions more and the Dr. thing seems to reinforce it, for better or worse.  In the Northeast, when I was teaching, they usually introduced me as Professor bchad, and also in California.  That seemed more normal to me, since that’s what my job description was.

When I travel in developing countries, they would almost always use the Dr. prefix when introducing me, and sometimes make my boss a Dr. too, even though he was an MBA and not a Ph.D..  I think the idea was that “surely, only a Dr. is qualified to supervise a Dr.”  But my guess is that the real reason was that they wanted the audience to think that they got to talk to someone that they don’t normally talk to.  I don’t know.  It was pretty funny.

And yes, sometimes you run into people who introduce themselves as Dr. XYZ.  And it does sound douchey to me, as though they have a big chip on their shoulder with something to prove.  However, this is often a habit borne out of the environments where they operate.  In some contexts, people are not taken seriously unless they whip out the credential, and they may simply overgeneralize how often they need to do it.

You want a quote?  Haven’t I written enough already???

Vandelay Industries wrote:

Ramos4rm wrote:

Vandelay Industries wrote:

bchad wrote:

Mr. VDLI wants to be subtly better than everyone else in the world. What really bothers him is how arrogant people who have obviously accomplished more than he has are. 

Not true at all. I dont put MBA after my name, yet some people do. And if/when I do get my CFA charter I wont be putting it behind my name either

Vandi…have you earned any designation / degree that is actually a common and accepted practice to put after your name? PhD, MD, CPA, CFA? Because it seems you have only earned an MBA which is definitely not a common and accepted thing to put after your name…it is like puting Ramos, HS Diploma…or Ramos, BS / BA…You see how stupid that looks…thats how stupid putting MBA after your name looks so you shouldnt use the fact that you dont put MBA after your name as an argument…NO ONE should be putting MBA after their name. It is not the same as a PhD, MD, CPA, CFA. I think youre upset you havent earned any of the higher level degrees / designation and are talking like you have and putting down those that have because…well…2nd grade logic…youre jealous, which is fine, but stop digging yourself deeper in this hole…we can all see past you.

Rightly or wrongly, there is a contigent of people that put MBA after their name. We have all seen it. I think it does indicate the ability for me to abstain from adding such titles to my name. I clearly could add it if I was really that set on addding stuff behind my name. A CFA is a masters level degree anyway, it is not a PhD, therefore it should be seen as more similar to an MBA, not a PhD, anyway

MBA from a non-top 10 school is not equivalent or better than CFA…it is much worse. So no, we cannot see CFA similar to MBA.

Ramos4rm, CFA, CAIA

My listed skills on LinkedIn are Zumba and Drawing. That is the absolute truth.

Would you, Quintus? Would I?

Ramos4rm wrote:

Vandelay Industries wrote:

Ramos4rm wrote:

Vandelay Industries wrote:

bchad wrote:

Mr. VDLI wants to be subtly better than everyone else in the world. What really bothers him is how arrogant people who have obviously accomplished more than he has are. 

Not true at all. I dont put MBA after my name, yet some people do. And if/when I do get my CFA charter I wont be putting it behind my name either

Vandi…have you earned any designation / degree that is actually a common and accepted practice to put after your name? PhD, MD, CPA, CFA? Because it seems you have only earned an MBA which is definitely not a common and accepted thing to put after your name…it is like puting Ramos, HS Diploma…or Ramos, BS / BA…You see how stupid that looks…thats how stupid putting MBA after your name looks so you shouldnt use the fact that you dont put MBA after your name as an argument…NO ONE should be putting MBA after their name. It is not the same as a PhD, MD, CPA, CFA. I think youre upset you havent earned any of the higher level degrees / designation and are talking like you have and putting down those that have because…well…2nd grade logic…youre jealous, which is fine, but stop digging yourself deeper in this hole…we can all see past you.

Rightly or wrongly, there is a contigent of people that put MBA after their name. We have all seen it. I think it does indicate the ability for me to abstain from adding such titles to my name. I clearly could add it if I was really that set on addding stuff behind my name. A CFA is a masters level degree anyway, it is not a PhD, therefore it should be seen as more similar to an MBA, not a PhD, anyway

MBA from a non-top 10 school is not equivalent or better than CFA…it is much worse. So no, we cannot see CFA similar to MBA.

what about if the MBA is from a top 10 school? Then what?

MBA from a top 10 school is great, but only a clown would put “, MBA” after his name. It’s just the convention to put CFA after your name, man. Not sure why you’re getting all uppity about it.

Edit: To elaborate, say you went to Harvard for undergrad. Well done! But also say you didn’t want to come off as a snob or full of yourself by bragging to everyone that you went to Harvard. So you don’t list that you graduated from Harvard under the education section of your resume. Maybe you bury it deep down somewhere in your resume, but you don’t put “Graduated Harvard University, 2009” where it normally goes. That would be weird, and by defying convention just to not come off as full of youself you are instead coming off like a person who doesn’t understand how to properly format a resume. Same thing with the CFA. If you have it, the convention is to put the initials after your name. By not putting it after your name, someone reading your resume does not think, “wow, what a humble, impressive person.” They think, “why did this moron not put the CFA initials after his name and make me look for it?”

Would you, Quintus? Would I?

H. P. Flashman wrote:

MBA from a top 10 school is great, but only a clown would put “, MBA” after his name. It’s just the convention to put CFA after your name, man. Not sure why you’re getting all uppity about it.

because I think it is arrogant and it annoys me. I don’t believe anyone should have any sort of designation or credential behind their name. It looks like they are overcompensating 

Vandelay Industries wrote:

Ramos4rm wrote:

Vandelay Industries wrote:

Ramos4rm wrote:

Vandelay Industries wrote:

bchad wrote:

Mr. VDLI wants to be subtly better than everyone else in the world. What really bothers him is how arrogant people who have obviously accomplished more than he has are. 

Not true at all. I dont put MBA after my name, yet some people do. And if/when I do get my CFA charter I wont be putting it behind my name either

Vandi…have you earned any designation / degree that is actually a common and accepted practice to put after your name? PhD, MD, CPA, CFA? Because it seems you have only earned an MBA which is definitely not a common and accepted thing to put after your name…it is like puting Ramos, HS Diploma…or Ramos, BS / BA…You see how stupid that looks…thats how stupid putting MBA after your name looks so you shouldnt use the fact that you dont put MBA after your name as an argument…NO ONE should be putting MBA after their name. It is not the same as a PhD, MD, CPA, CFA. I think youre upset you havent earned any of the higher level degrees / designation and are talking like you have and putting down those that have because…well…2nd grade logic…youre jealous, which is fine, but stop digging yourself deeper in this hole…we can all see past you.

Then you can talk about it in the same sentence as CFA…but still cant put it after your name.

Rightly or wrongly, there is a contigent of people that put MBA after their name. We have all seen it. I think it does indicate the ability for me to abstain from adding such titles to my name. I clearly could add it if I was really that set on addding stuff behind my name. A CFA is a masters level degree anyway, it is not a PhD, therefore it should be seen as more similar to an MBA, not a PhD, anyway

MBA from a non-top 10 school is not equivalent or better than CFA…it is much worse. So no, we cannot see CFA similar to MBA.

what about if the MBA is from a top 10 school? Then what?

Ramos4rm, CFA, CAIA

H. P. Flashman wrote:

MBA from a top 10 school is great, but only a clown would put “, MBA” after his name. It’s just the convention to put CFA after your name, man. Not sure why you’re getting all uppity about it.

Edit: To elaborate, say you went to Harvard for undergrad. Well done! But also say you didn’t want to come off as a snob or full of yourself by bragging to everyone that you went to Harvard. So you don’t list that you graduated from Harvard under the education section of your resume. Maybe you bury it deep down somewhere in your resume, but you don’t put “Graduated Harvard University, 2009” where it normally goes. That would be weird, and by defying convention just to not come off as full of youself you are instead coming off like a person who doesn’t understand how to properly format a resume. Same thing with the CFA. If you have it, the convention is to put the initials after your name. By not putting it after your name, someone reading your resume does not think, “wow, what a humble, impressive person.” They think, “why did this moron not put the CFA initials after his name and make me look for it?”

you act as if there is one clear-cut method of writing a resume. A resume is a very fluid, ambiguous art form with many grey areas and places where choices can be made. There are few hard and fast rules. CFA should go under certifications and designations IMO, just like a degree should go under education. The real scenario to compare to yours is if someone put “john smith, Harvard graduate” at the top of the resume. 

Vandelay Industries wrote:

A resume is a very fluid, ambiguous art form

Would you, Quintus? Would I?

Finninja, CFA, GED

Actually I think this sounds more impressive, I may start using it.

Vandelay Industries wrote:

H. P. Flashman wrote:

MBA from a top 10 school is great, but only a clown would put “, MBA” after his name. It’s just the convention to put CFA after your name, man. Not sure why you’re getting all uppity about it.

because I think it is arrogant and it annoys me. I don’t believe anyone should have any sort of designation or credential behind their name. It looks like they are overcompensating 

Overcompensating for what?  For the fact that you don’t know very much about professionalism?

You want a quote?  Haven’t I written enough already???

Vandelay you’re green with… shoot what was the rest of that phrase…

Hey Hamilton, have a holly jolly Christmas.

I hereby declare that everyone should make sure they have their PhD,  CFA, MD, or any obviously worthy achievement behind their name on the resume and business card just because it will clearly separate your superiority over Vandelay who has achieved nothing. And probably has a secret agenda to scare people into diminishing their own achievements in the fruitless attempt of trying to appear as your equal.

Yea that’s right. I said it.

Hope. It is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and greatest weakness.

bchad wrote:

Vandelay Industries wrote:

H. P. Flashman wrote:

MBA from a top 10 school is great, but only a clown would put “, MBA” after his name. It’s just the convention to put CFA after your name, man. Not sure why you’re getting all uppity about it.

because I think it is arrogant and it annoys me. I don’t believe anyone should have any sort of designation or credential behind their name. It looks like they are overcompensating 

Overcompensating for what?  For the fact that you don’t know very much about professionalism?

overcompensating and implying that they are superior to someone with just a regular name, without the letters behind it

itera wrote:

I hereby declare that everyone should make sure they have their PhD,  CFA, MD, or any obviously worthy achievement behind their name on the resume and business card just because it will clearly separate your superiority over Vandelay who has achieved nothing. And probably has a secret agenda to scare people into diminishing their own achievements in the fruitless attempt of trying to appear as your equal.

Yea that’s right. I said it.

ive already said that when I get a CFA charter I won’t put it behind my name. I will let my resume speak for itself and don’t need to put letters as a part of my name to show how I’m so much better than someone without them

My career isn’t going to hinge on the CFA to prove and validate my worthiness. It’ll just be a slight addition to the entire package

Vandy, what do you currently do? Are you still a student? Serious question.

And you want to be my latex salesman….

I’ve given itera a lot of grief over the years, but this time I think he’s right to just call it in black and white.

You want a quote?  Haven’t I written enough already???

My Linkedin says “CFA v MBA, B$D”

Is that money or what!

bchad wrote:

I’ve given itera a lot of grief over the years, but this time I think he’s right to just call it in black and white.

Nice.. at least some good is coming out of this..

Hope. It is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and greatest weakness.

CFAvsMBA wrote:

My Linkedin says “CFA v MBA, B$D”

Is that money or what!

Needs to be more impactfull.  Do this

CFAvMBA, CFA, 8======D

Hope. It is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and greatest weakness.

AfricaFarmer wrote:

Vandy, what do you currently do? Are you still a student? Serious question.

Im a final semester MBA student doing a part time side job

FinNinja wrote:

And you want to be my latex salesman….

Big seinfeld fan. Like the post

bchad wrote:

I’ve given itera a lot of grief over the years, but this time I think he’s right to just call it in black and white.

You two are hinging your responses on the fact that im only a lowly level 1 candidate and thus my opinion isnt worthy. How would your responses be different if I was a CFA Charterholder?

Vandelay Industries wrote:

bchad wrote:

I’ve given itera a lot of grief over the years, but this time I think he’s right to just call it in black and white.

You two are hinging your responses on the fact that im only a lowly level 1 candidate and thus my opinion isnt worthy. 

No we’re not. You still don’t get it

Hope. It is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and greatest weakness.