I’d say about 85% of what I’ve been reading says don’t do it because:
Just curious on anyones thoughts on this topic?
Are you a white male? If so, don’t bother. You won’t make it. BgaChad even confirmed that.
Why not? School rox!
Yeah getting the professor tenor would be impossible for you to achieve…
If you have any doubt whatsoever, don’t do it. The tradeoff is worth it only for the most resolute people.
Why is it so impossible to achieve? Is supply really that low.
Also, how difficult is it to be admitted into say an average school’s phds program and how difficult is it to complete the testing, dissertation, etc.? What about top tier school?
Don’t have any doubts about my desire to help the next generations. Just need more answers to make sure the large sacrifice of time and money will pay off…By ‘pay off’ I mean, succesfully completely the program and landing a tenor at some point…not money.
Yeah, those tenor track positions are very difficult to find…anywhere.
It’s very hard difficult to obtain tenure and you will most likely have to relocate. The thing is people who have tenure tend to never leave their position, and spots rarely open up. I remember one of my philosophy professor telling me there are more than one hundred people interviewing for one adjunct position at the school. He has been there forever and in his case no one’s going to become the chair until he dies pretty much. Just make sure you have the stomach for the rejection, many PHDs end up working in the industry anyway. You can always get the PHD obtain more industry experience then teach once you are on the decline in terms of you career progression.
It’s impossible because “tenor” is not a thing. It’s called “tenure”. He was making fun of you.
@Buffettology Here as well. He was making fun of you.
Thanks for your insights Ramos. Couldn’t help but think of the sequence of events that lead you to your post. You go on your computer, click on analyst forum, look though posts, click on mine, read all the replies, and then decide to point out a misspelled word…twice. You are my friend, a forum troll.
Ramos4rm Sep 14th, 2015 4:11pm
Studying With
Let me brag too. I passed 5/5 (CFA L1, CAIA L1, CAIA L2, CFA L2, CFA L3)…you dont need to post an essay if you just want people to know you passed 3/3…just brag and get it over with…you earned the right…for a little bit….then it’s just annoying.
Ramos4rm, CFA, CAIA
dont hurt him Ramos
This thread took an odd turn.
If I had the opportunity, I’d do it in a heartbeat.
Mathematics. Algebraic topology. Knot theory in particular.
Universities are in trouble, having lost a sense of what they are about in the post-internet world. They basically form two functions these days: slightly upscale vocational training for the masses, and finishing schools for networking by the children of the elite.
Since education is now a business, the Ph.D.s are basically either stars or adjuncts. Adjucts get the bulk of the teaching done but work at near minimum wage levels, once you factor in how much time it takes to prep lectures and grade student materials. Understandably, many adjuncts cut corners because the per hour pay is so miserable otherwise, although many do try to keep up some quality out of love of teaching or the need to be invited back
Stars teach a few courses so that students apply and pay for the university, dreaming of all the knowledge they will aquire from the stars, but mostly they research and teach one course a semester to prove that it is possible to learn from them and work on the research and publications that give them star status.
Tenure is expensive and constraining on budgets for administrators, so universities do not want to give it out. If Administrators had their way, all professors would be adjuncts, though they would not admit that in polite company.
Nonetheless, ratios of tenured faculty to students are important for rankings, and administrators do care very much about this, so there are a certain number of tenured slots that do open up in recognition of the fact that too many adjuncts looks bad, but gosh, they sure are cheap compared to a regular professor, and they are easy to dismiss, except when in the middle of a semester or quarter.
University administrators don’t really know how to measure promise or importance, except perhaps in truly exceptional cases. What they do know is that they have a bunch of senior tenured white males that they can’t fire, and a bunch of critics complaining that there are not enough women/minorities/gay/transsexual/disabled/etc. professors with tenure. So, given that it’s a high priority to improve the diversity ratings, and they don’t want to open any tenure-track jobs if they don’t absolutely have to, you had better be exremely obviously a star in your field if you are not a “diversifier,” because they already have too many white men that they can’t fire.
Now, if you don’t care what part of the country you live in, it’s likely that you may find a position that couldn’t locate a diversifier and has a need for staff or may hire because if they don’t use the budget allocation for a professor, they are likley to lose it. However, realize that you will just have to go wherever the job is, and if they aren’t interested in what you specialized in, then, you’re SOL.
On the other hand, if you are a diversifier, it’s a lot better for you. I had dinner with one woman who was hired by a Women’s Studies department that was expanding. Her work and dissertation had nothing to do with women’s studies (it was on the history of labor union organizing in Peru or something like that), but it turned out that being a woman and having a completed dissertation was enough to get her hired. I’m sure she was perfectly able to become a fine professor of women’s studies, but it is indeed frustrating to know that someone like me could never expect to find that kind of accommodation, whether in Women’s Studies or any other department, and I’m not willing to change either my sex or sexual orientation to do so.
Nonetheless, even if you do make it to a university, public universities and anything that isn’t a super-brand like the Ivys and Stanford and such are facing constant budget cuts. Professors’ salaries are not the major thing that is pushing the costs of higher education up.
All that said, if you can land a tenured professor position, it is one of the nicest work-life balances that exists in the world, and with a reasonable amount of respect from pretty much everyone, except for financiers.
My finance professor tried getting me to go the PHD route. He basically told me in his very mild manner way “it’s a sweet gig.” But then last time I hung out with him, he mentioned it to me, but then said “but perhaps it won’t be as sweet a gig in the future.” Of course I’m translating his quotes. I’d want to work at a smaller liberal arts college if I had a PHD, the problem is the recession hit those schools hard. So I imagine it puts a constrain on the new hires for a while at least
Very good detailed info bchad. I do appreciate it. Just one thing, do you mind clearifying this statement? I’m probably reading this wrong, but it seems conflicting. If professors salaries are not the major driver of higher costs of eduction, then why would they be heavily effected?