So to make this quick as I have to run out, I am considering sitting for the L1 in December. I am trying to get my foot in the door at a finance firm. I figure maybe passing my L1 will show my commitment to this. But after reading some comments on this forum, seems I may be just wasting my time. Seems there are a lot of others that actually have their CFA and experience and are out of work. I know this is a huge commitment so I’m not taking it lightly. Maybe my dreams of working on ‘Wall St’ are exactly that, dreams. To put things in perspective, I’m 36 live near NYC, no family yet, but plan on getting married end of year. I graduated with a BBA from Temple Univ in Philly and was doing some day-trading years ago. Left that (made a living, not a killing) and pursued a position at a start-up company which I left in October as I was not being paid the commissions that were owed to me (will be filing a lawsuit soon with another ex co-worker) Just trying to figure out what to do. I am fortunate to be working now, but not in the finance field and it’s just temporary to pay the bills but it is very good money. I just feel like I need to start working on something to move forward in my career. Any input is appreciated. Thanks dukedog
Well, I think most would say on here that you have to like finance a WHOLE lot to study CFA. I have no idea if it opens doors like that, but good luck to you
If you like finance, specifically asset valuation, then go for your CFA. If you like accounting go for CA. If you want to be a financial planner look into the CFP.
what do you do now ?
I think there is a good chance taking level 1 will help get your foot in the door. Also remember there is the psychological benefit- which I think is very really- that progress through the program affords, in terms of believing it’ll open up doors for you. Go for it. And go Owls!!!
Yes it will help, but it won’t be enough all on it’s own. You’ll need to accumulate so e kind of relevant experience or show that your previous experience gives you useful investment insights (such as into a particular industry). If your trading is disciplined, profitable, and represents a consistent investing philosophy, then that will help, otherwise it will not.
a good strategy might be for you to apply for operations roles in SMALL investment shops. I would think they would hire people who don’t have much relevant experience. Then when you’re in there become buddy buddy with someone who can help move you along…
I want to know how many on this forum have passed L3 and have been trying to find a job for a long long time and have had no luck. I still think CFA is > than most other finance designations.
I’m jaded, so take my advice with a grain of salt. I’m sitting for L3 next week, and it will be the 10th year I’m a candidate. (I’ve taken some yrs off admittedly, both physically and mentally) I’ll admit, I’m not the brightest bulb in the pack, went to a state university, got OK grades. I’m going to go out on a limb and say that this is going to take a lot of effort for you to pass. I know I don’t know you from anybody else, but I don’t think this is worth the effort. I have never calculated the potential NPV of the CFA program, but at this point, I’d have to work until I was 83 to get a positive return out of it. Plus, if you are just now getting married - trust me, your wife will put up with it for one maybe two years - I just can’t see somebody putting up with the CFA program for too much longer than that. Again, I’m totally jaded, I’ll fully admit - but I’m having a hard time justifying the program any more. (For the record, I did talk my former boss into the program, and he went 3 for 3. Go flipping figure)
Duke- Nice post - sounds like you’ve put serious thought into the transition and your chances. As far as foot in the door, yes, it’ll help some. But likely you’ll need a whole mess of other stuff, too. There are some licenses you’ll probably need to get - these are the “must haves” for working in the industry. Common ones are series 7, sometimes series 66, and then a bunch of others depending on your chosen field and subfield. None of them are something you can walk in and pass. You’ll likely have to put at least a few weeks in prepping for all of them. Then, there are the advanced certifications or designations in finance. These are not the “must-haves” like licenses. These usually are meant to imply above average experience or competence in a certain area. Retail/personal finance usually has the Certified Financial Planner designation, Alternate investments have the CAIA [Chartered Alternative Investment something or other, I think?], asset management/valuation has the Chartered Financial Analyst designation. All of these are difficult exams, but most of them are designed to dovetail with your experience in the industry - not to replace it. The thing to keep in mind with any of these exams is: -None of them will replace experience -Brains will not be enough to get you through them. You will need to dedicate time and sweat to them. Similar to med school or law school or a number of other highly compensated fields, finance is ultra competitive. A huge differentiator can be how much you enjoy and are interested in the work. The fact that you really, really, really want to value private companies or price derivatives means that you’ll be able to study for the CFA or get into the office at 6AM with a better attitude and more regularity than the next guy. A burning desire to really do the work can make up for a heck of a lot. Not anything, but a lot. My advice would be to pursue what you want, as hard as you can run. If you desperately want to work in finance, then hell, get cracking. Find a place that’ll give you an entry-level job and start getting your licenses and experience. However, if you are NOT SURE about this transition, then I would not start investing all my free time in passing the CFA. Also, even if you get a finance job and then pass all three levels in 18 months, it’d be another 2.5 years at best for you to get the designation. You need four years of relevant work experience for the charter! Best of luck!
bchadwick Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Yes it will help, but it won’t be enough all on > it’s own. You’ll need to accumulate so > e kind of relevant experience or show that your > previous experience gives you useful investment > insights (such as into a particular industry). If > your trading is disciplined, profitable, and > represents a consistent investing philosophy, then > that will help, otherwise it will not. Agreed - The CFA will help, but it’s not enough on it’s own (especially these days). You’ll a combination of experience and strong networking, in addition to the CFA exams. If you can pass it fairly easily (have a good fundamental finance knowledge and basic accounting understanding), I’d say go for it. If not, I’d focus on experience and networking to get your foot in the door, and then once you’re in start churning the exams. It definitely wouldn’t hurt you, but focusing on the other two (which can be as difficult) might give you a better return, IMO.
Knowing what I know now, I never would’ve started the CFA program. Would’ve been better off spending the several hundred hours I’ve put in (so far, and assuming I pass LIII this year) not ending relationships, not having to leave work at 7:00 to study, not having to miss spring for years and years, not having to pay outrageous fees to study providers and the CFAI…just a whole shitload of things. Would’ve enjoyed life more, been able to focus more at work, and probably still be dating my ex-ex-ex girlfriend. In today’s world, the letters “CFA” will get you an “oh, that’s nice” in an interview and commiserate with fellow charterholders about what a time suck it is at conference cocktail hours. It’s not nearly the “accomplishment” (in other people’s eyes) that we all seem to try to make it out to be, unfortunately. All that being said, I guess it can’t hurt you get your foot in the door.
Honestly, I wouldn’t take the CFA without any prior experence. I’m 24, worked at Morgan Stanley and they paid for all of my series exams and my CFA. It saved me thousands. But what got me in the door to Morgan wasn’t what I had but who I knew- for wall street it’s all about connections. Besides, no offense, but a lot of people drop the thousand for the CFA test but that doesn’t show commitment- not until you pass lvl 2 I’d say. If you really want a job in finance and the hope to work on wall street- move outside the country. A lot of the big guys on wall steet have worked outside the country before they got top positons. Unfortunatly, for a lot of finance people in New York, there is a thick glass celing to upper managment. The CFA will certainly help once you are working, but you should try to just get into a small role now at a firm and work your way up/over. Talk your new wife into moving overseas if you can. Good luck and this is just my opinon from what I have seen at Morgan…
I am in the same boat. But I already took the decision to pursue it and get it done. I’m an Engineer who never worked in Finance, but in my current job, I do a lot of analysis (trending/forecasting/modeling) and I use many common tools such as Matlab, VBA, SQL… but it’s not directly Finance related. I passed level 1 last year, and sitting for level 2 now. Since I don’t have many connections in the Financial field, I have to go the tough way. I am getting my graduate degree from Temple in Financial Engineering. Maybe that will get me through some door. I have 7 classes left. I will keep trying until I get my foot into something quantitative, most likely. On the other hand, I’m not married, but will most likely be in a year. However, to be honest, this year I had many doubts about it, but I managed to overcome them. I am doing well at my current job, have a decent salary, and have great prospects here. So having to stop working at 5 or 6 to go study for the CFA has a huge opportunity cost. Also, VOLUNTARILY choosing not to have a life for 4-5 months a year, is not an easy decision to explain to yourself or to others that matter to you. But to me, it’s worth it! And I think that someone out there will see that and give me a chance… I just hope my judgment is not clouded. For all of you guys out there in the field, feel free to slap me and bring me back to reality…
nickfaulkner Wrote: > If you really want a job in finance and the hope > to work on wall street- move outside the country. > A lot of the big guys on wall steet have worked > outside the country before they got top positons. > Unfortunatly, for a lot of finance people in New > York, there is a thick glass celing to upper > managment. > > The CFA will certainly help once you are working, > but you should try to just get into a small role > now at a firm and work your way up/over. > > Talk your new wife into moving overseas if you > can. Good luck and this is just my opinon from > what I have seen at Morgan… i wish i read this 10 years ago. i seriously do. i would have packed up and left for shanghai or hong kong, and i’m NOT kidding.
Thanks for all the insight everyone. I already do have my series 7, to the person that asked, not that the 7 really means anything. As far as leaving the country, that’s def a no for the soon to be wife. Although she does have 2 cousins living in Japan working as traders making sick money, they hate it and want to come back. But can’t find anything in the states as of yet, at least something that they’d be willing to leave the $$$ they are making. I gave myself to June 1 to decide. I have been applying for all sorts of positions, not just in finance, to no avail. I must go back and forth in my mind 3 times a day saying “I’m def doing it!” to “no, I’ll concentrate on other things”. My girl thinks I’m crazy, and I tell her that she doesn’t understand the difficulty and studying I’ll be doing, which means time apart. I think I just changed my mind twice while writing this post! Thanks again for the input everyone. Still thinking… dukedog
dukedog Some things to consider: - You’ll be pushing 39 by the time you finish LIII if you pass them all first time. - You will probably be 42 or so before you have the work experience to be awarded the charter (assuming you get a job in the next year or so that meets the criteria) - your wife-to-be doesn’t sound too convinced or aware of what it entails (I cannot stress enough how much time you will need to put in to it, unless you are some kind of a genius). - You don’t have a theoretical background in finance (ie an undergrad in Finance), plus you probably finished university a long time ago which makes studying that bit harder - the job market sucks and may for a long time On the plus side: - you will learn a heck of a lot - you will save a lot of money because you will spend the best part of 2 years sitting at your desk studying - you get to hang out here and commiserate with a bunch of internet randoms who know exactly what you’re going through - it will help you get a job in finance, in the same way as pissing in the sea helps to increase the total volume of liquid in the oceans (i.e not very much)
For what its worth… I think you should focus more on identifying more clearly what ‘finance’ career you want to pursue and then networking your way into that position or an adjacency. I doubt you can make a dent based on a piece of paper that says you passed level 1. Not everyone spends the same amount of time preparing. If you think you can wing it while doing the networking and …word of the month…dominating your position, then by all means go ahead. You will definitely learn a lot from the material. In any case, all the best.
If you are having doubts, then maybe it’s not for you. If you are sure, then go for it. If you just want to do CFA to break into the industry, you may be disappointed. As I said earlier, it will help, but it won’t be sufficient on its own. However, if you want to learn about what goes into investing and portfolio management, and don’t want to go get a university education in the topic, the CFA is very useful (and relatively inexpensive). Presumably, if you want to break into the industry, that learning curve will be motivation on its own. For me, I found it invaluable. I should say that CFA does not really cover trading methodologies and technical analysis, but it does a decent job of giving a base in fundamental analysis, valuation techniques, and modern portfolio theory.
bchadwick, what if you are already in the industry, do you really think that the CFA will help transition to sell/buy side research jobs, associate jobs and/or analyst roles? The thing is that I have seen a lot of job postings that want an MBA also, it really seems like the MBA and the CFA are requirements just to land an interview. On top of that, the MBA needs to be top tier. What do you think? I don’t think CFA and a bachelors is enough.