I got an intern offer.. need advice.

Hi guys. So here is my situation. I graduated in 2008 and as you you can imagine, was out of luck when it came to the banking industry. I had done a co-op term before hand, so I knew some guys at least… but even they weren’t hiring. This summer, one of the senior guys I did coop for decided to leave and start up his own ibank. I have done some free bitch work for him just to stay in the loop and at least have some sort of connection to the finance world. Originally when we talked in the summer, he had told me that I might be able to get a job with his company once things pick up there. Fast forward to about 2 months ago. He emailed me and said "hey, we might have enough work for you to give you a full time position in a few weeks. Fast forward to yesterday, when one of his partners called me and asked me to come in for a talk… they wanted to see if I was interested in a 90 day intern position with $0 base salary. But basically, they are offering to pay me a working fee related to successful deals. Of course, all fees are “discretionary”. Right now I have an unrelated job that isnt in finance, doesnt pay well, but at least it pays. It would have to mean leaving this job for something unpaid, which sucks cause I’m in debt. I’m also disillusioned cause I was under the impression that it would be a full time, salary gig (thats what i took away from “we might have enough work for you to give you a full time position in a few weeks”). On the one hand, I feel like i might be getting stiffed. On the other hand, this could be my last chance at breaking into the industry. Btw, I live in Calgary, so breaking into finance is kinda sketish here right now. Anyone here have some optics on the situation or could give me some sage advice?

If you think you can get another job that pays bills like the one you have now at the end of the 90 days, take the shot, and hustle hard for them. It’ll show initiative, dedication, and give you some good experience. You might get an offer out of it as well, but you might not. I’d do it if you can afford it and think you can get a nearly equivalent job at the end of the 3 months.

Do you think this is your only shot in finance? Also, will this be perceived as a prestigious position to have on your resume? If so, then maybe it’s worth eating instant noodles for a while.

“The I’ll give you a commission if I feel like it” sounds fishy. If this were a non-profit, those types might feel pangs of guilt by saying “I don’t feel like it,” but bankers are in the business of trying to get as much for free as they possibly can and keeping profits for themselves. So if you’re going to work on a commission/fee-like schedule, that’s reasonable enough, but I think you need to push for more clarity on what you are likely to get from them if you close deals successfully. Try to agree on a formula or set of principles that will determine your compensation. They don’t pay you unless they make money, which is the way startups need to work, but you get some sense of how much of that profit you can expect to get from your work… …unless you feel that the experience is worth working completely for free. In which case, do that and just hope for the best on the fee side. It is not crazy for you to decide to do it this way - in fact, it may be fine for just 90 days; but just be honest with yourself that this is what you are doing.

i say the longer your not in finance, the harder it will be to get in like a self fulfilling profecy the HR managers looking at your CV would be like hummm… 5 years out of school, this guy still has no job in finance, he probably blows… offcourse thats not how it is realy is, but they can be inconsiderate of the economy and situations… so i say if you trust the guy is not just taking advantage of you, and if you think the firm has a chance to make it, go for it… it would be nice if you can arrange for a very small base, enough for you to live on bread and gov chesse…

btw, what is your status in the CFA program ?

Im in there somewhere…

bchadwick Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > …unless you feel that the experience is worth > working completely for free. In which case, do > that and just hope for the best on the fee side. > It is not crazy for you to decide to do it this > way - in fact, it may be fine for just 90 days; > but just be honest with yourself that this is what > you are doing. I worked a free internship to break into research. It was really rough, I did it for a long time (six months) and worked my tail off. I don’t regret it at all - on the contrary, I don’t think I could have broken in without it. But here’s what you need to ask yourself: -Do you have SERIOUS RESPECT for these guys? When I agreed to my unpaid internship, I did so because the dude I’d be working with was/is respected in his investment style. To make the decision a little easier, I’d known him socially for about 18 months and was about 90% certain that he was an all-around good guy. Don’t agree to work for free for underperforming chumps who aren’t known well in the industry and appear to treat their employees/friends/colleagues badly. -Do you have the financial means to do this? I had enough money saved thankfully that I wasn’t gonna starve if I didn’t work for a year. Thank god, it wasn’t that long, but I could’ve done it if it came down to that. If you’ve got 6 months worth of living expenses set aside - with no change in your lifestyle - then you can probably open up your employment options more. You mentioned you’re in debt - school debt is probably OK, but if you’re living paycheck-to-paycheck with no savings, I’d think twice about doing this. -Can you get them to commit to either a full time gig once your internship is over, or agree that they’ll get you contacts somewhere for interviews? If they can introduce you to your dream boss because they were college roommates with them, that’s valuable. -Would they be open to negotiating on pay at all? You could offer to work extremely cheaply and then negotiate a bonus on closed deals/investments, or tell them that you’ll rescind wages for the 90 days if they extend you a full time offer at the end of the period. -are you SURE you’ll be doing valuable work? If you’re going to be doing due diligence with experienced people (who are interested in showing you a thing or two when they have time), that’s ideal. If you’re going to be doing about 20% due diligence, 50% admin tasks, and 30% ordering office supplies and lunch…that’s not ideal. Hope this helps, let me know what you think.

Anyone “starting an ibank” in Calgary sould be viewed as sketchy, IMO. Taking an unpaid internship at a big bank with real prospects of starting a career is something that may make sense to consider. This doesn’t sound like an equivalent opportunity to me.

I don’t know man. If the job you currently have is something you could always go back to but it’s not in finance, then 3 months is a small commitment for a last chance to break in. But it is a gamble, so I gotta respect your potential willingness to go for broke.

Anonymous Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Anyone “starting an ibank” in Calgary sould be > viewed as sketchy, IMO. Taking an unpaid > internship at a big bank with real prospects of > starting a career is something that may make sense > to consider. This doesn’t sound like an > equivalent opportunity to me. I didn’t see this part - missed that one sentence. Yeah, ibanks tend to be kinda oligopolies. At the top you’ve got MS, GS, ML. Then you’ve got some middle-market firms who aren’t quite the same but respected in a few areas. Then you’ve got…everyone else. I’d view this with a strong set of BS filters. My previous post advice still applies, but I’d definitely take a good hard look at all the risks associated with this move - you’re not taking an internship at a prestige place or something, you’d be signing on with unknowns at a new shop. That’s very different.

You might want to tread carefully here. In the past few years a good chunk of people have gone independent in the quest of making it big in Calgary. Even if they manage to get in on some syndication deals, their cut would probably be very minimal. It’ll be a tough proposition for this shop to survive the market considering there are TONS of big name iBanks in town. That’s why they aren’t promising you any money. It’s a risk-reward proposition, but the risk of you ending up with diddly after 90 days is pretty realistic. Keep at it, stay where you are, whatever change you’re making still pays your bills. Just my opinion. Did you go to Haskayne?

I am not in favor of doing this. At these smaller shops, they “distinguish” themselves and sell their services as “our most senior directors do your work, and it never gets handed down to junior bankers” It’s one of their main selling points to clients who are afraid they’re not important enough to have the attention of senior bankers at the big banks. That said, the senior people will likely be so busy doing client meetings and modeling that it’s unlikely you’ll learn anything real, and most likely will get handed the b*tch work, putting together presentations, pitchbooks, admin/secretarial stuff. ESPECIALLY since you have no salary, and they’re not obligated to get real value out of you since you are not paid. Lastly, bankers are pretty greedy. I wouldn’t do it unless you really know these people, and or get them to agree to something solid and in writing.

@libor.plus1 please give me ur email id or mail me o ngreatnavneet@gmail.com I may have some paid work for you related with investment banking, fund raising. May be you like it so we can discuss further. please revert me back.

Why do you think it’s your last chance?

Totally agree with supersadface’s post…have nothing too distinctive to add, just read over his ideas carefully

In regards to why I think its my last chance: I’ve peppered my resume to various places, and no one has really bit. It’s pretty cut throat out there. Also, I’ve been out of school a couple of years now, and it wouldnt make sense for a company to take me for an entry level gig when they can take someone straight out of college.

^ I disagree. I know several people with a couple years out, and went to take entry level opps in something like ER or Banking. Companies get someone who has some experience at an entry level. They would actually prefer it this way.

I’m in a similar position; a couple years out of school, working in a non finance company that is growing about 40% a year, directly under the CEO, get to do lots of traveling, and I don’t mind my job. But finance has always been the goal and I can’t help but still want to be in the game. Have a few unpaid internship possibilities at various hedge funds, but now I recently got a HUGE raise at my current job. I just don’t know what to do and if it’s worth the risk. There’s always a possibility after your stint at an unpaid internship that you’ll be out on your ass applying to crap jobs for 6 months. It’s a scary job market out there.

i think this is a great opportunity learn from these guys, if they blow up you will be part of something big. are you a risk taker? go for it you fukkin puss y