How does the CFA candidate feel about the younger or similar age person in the industry who has gotten “lucky” and are currently in a front office investment position. “Lucky” because he/she has never had and never will have any intention to obtain the CFA charter, does not have an MBA, does not have the standard investment banking analyst 2 year training, and does not have a track record in trading P/L. There are certainly people who fit this bill who are currently in research positions on the buy side, meaning the CFA will not get you that coveted high paying front office position.
what!!! u mean life is not fair…insert shock
I don’t understand. This post is not even coherent.
ohai Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I don’t understand. This post is not even > coherent. +1 So, pawn, what is your point?
You sound like a whiner pawn. It’s not a competition, or a series of steps on a ladder. Maybe it would be constructive to ask how they succeded in selling themselves so well.
Get used to it. Welcome to the real world.
P.S. most people getting the charter, at least used to, already be in the industry and working in such a job. This is why the charter is supposed to “enhance” our natural god/dad-given skills. It was never intended to be mediocre school —> dead end job in IT + CFA --> big swinging finance d*ck It was supposed to be: super smart ivy leaguer with connections —> quality analyst program + cfa —> millionaire Studying a whole lot won’t make you a gifted, ivy leaguer, with great connections. The CFA is probably the least signicant variable in this regression.
^ agree
By the way, I’m not trying to be mean. That is just the way I see it. A lot of people chase this charter thinking it’s their ticket to the big league. It is not. Michael Jordon eats his wheaties;eating Wheaties does not make you Michael Jordon.
ChickenTikka Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > P.S. most people getting the charter, at least > used to, already be in the industry and working in > such a job. This is why the charter is supposed > to “enhance” our natural god/dad-given skills. > > It was never intended to be mediocre school —> > dead end job in IT + CFA --> big swinging finance > d*ck > > It was supposed to be: > > super smart ivy leaguer with connections —> > quality analyst program + cfa —> millionaire > > Studying a whole lot won’t make you a gifted, ivy > leaguer, with great connections. The CFA is > probably the least signicant variable in this > regression. +10,000…this cant be said enough. if you’re a talentless hack the CFA will not help you in any way shape or form
any designation, MBA, Ph.D. gets trumped by an hedge fund applicant who has access to millions in family money, friends of family money, etc., seen it more than enough time.
ChickenTikka, you make a couple quick belittling assumptions about the original post’s CFA candidate. For one, you say the CFA candidate is from a mediocre school and second, you say he/she is working a dead end job in IT. However, the original post assumes your latter description as the average CFA candidate. In this ever competitive job market today, there are tons of ivy leaguers who are not interested in going to business school and decide to dedicate time to the charter, while working front/middle office analyst positions on the sell side or buy side. But these people don’t always end up becoming portfolio managers or, as you say “big swinging finance d*cks”. A lot of them either end up as perennial sell side research associates, 3rd year banking analysts who transition to research/trading/sales within the bank, or buy side nobodies (which in my opinion includes mostly Research personnel who never see their ideas traded on). So, to your point, an ivy leaguer with great connections, going through a quality analyst program and CFA does not always equal success. That is a dangerous pipe dream to hold onto. When giving advice on the matter, you should instead harp on Black Swan’s great post. The industry is not a series of steps. Instead, it is about how you sell yourself to your said “great connections”. So the original post’s implied point is that your personality plus other more superficial traits are far more important than anything else in this industry. And for those who are not from a top tier school with some sort of analyst training, please heed the following quote before continuing to struggle through an already diluted license, “Dedication without talent is a daydream”. And for those with the necessary background but still stuck in their idiosyncratic “dead end” jobs, it may be a good idea to supplement the CFA with acting classes, getting plastic surgery, and increasing your alcohol tolerance level.
ChickenTikka, you make a couple quick belittling assumptions about the original post’s CFA candidate. For one, you say the CFA candidate is from a mediocre school and second, you say he/she is working a dead end job in IT. However, the original post assumes your latter description as the average CFA candidate. In this ever competitive job market today, there are tons of ivy leaguers who are not interested in going to business school and decide to dedicate time to the charter, while working front/middle office analyst positions on the sell side or buy side. But these people don’t always end up becoming portfolio managers or, as you say “big swinging finance d*cks”. A lot of them either end up as perennial sell side research associates, 3rd year banking analysts who transition to research/trading/sales within the bank, or buy side nobodies (which in my opinion includes mostly Research personnel who never see their ideas traded on). So, to your point, an ivy leaguer with great connections, going through a quality analyst program and CFA does not always equal success. That is a dangerous pipe dream to hold onto. When giving advice on the matter, you should instead harp on Black Swan’s great post. The industry is not a series of steps. Instead, it is about how you sell yourself to your said “great connections”. So the original post’s implied point is that your personality plus other more superficial traits are far more important than anything else in this industry. And for those who are not from a top tier school with some sort of analyst training, please heed the following quote before continuing to struggle through an already diluted license, “Dedication without talent is a daydream”. And for those with the necessary background but still stuck in their idiosyncratic “dead end” jobs, it may be a good idea to supplement the CFA with acting classes, getting plastic surgery, and increasing your alcohol tolerance level.
Pawn, you make a couple quick belittling assumptions about CFA candidates. For one, you assume that people are taking the test to break into finance, get a better job or whatever else is going on in your head. Some people are taking the test because they enjoy the material and it shows people that they are dedicated. Second you assume that everyone’s goal is to work as a FO buyside analyst. Many people do not. So, to your point, that personality plus other more superficial traits are far more important than anything else in this industry - no sh!t/who cares. Your blanket statements have 0 significance. Also I know several students from schools that are not “top tier” that are getting internships and offers from bulge bracket banks and other respectable companies, reducing your rant to nothing more than an insignificant blip on the Internet.
Being an Ivy leaguer is hardly a guarantee of getting one of these jobs, it’s competitive even for them. I recently interviewed at a well known MM ER shop, and from scouring through tons of profiles, definitely not many target school graduates there. CFA seemed to be pretty common though. Why don’t you just accept that it’s a competitive field, and it will be hard to break in?
Lets not generalise pawn At one of your points: If you are implying being good looking helps in getting a job in finance, well yes and no, I mean you could have a guy who looks like brad pit step into an interview room, and come across as being a little dumb or nervous or just a dick, and he wouldn’t get the job. But let’s be fair if you look like Brad Pit, then you are probably confident, as you are prob getting laid every night with any girl you want, and this comes across in the interview, i.e. good looking = confident = helps in interviews. But obviously this is BS, as any let’s say Ugly (pretty vague word to use depending on what you view as ugly) person walks into an interview room and comes across as been a really nice, confident, and knowledgeable guy then he might get hired. So let’s not generalise here. I mean I get this allot, sorry if I come across as ** but I have had people say to me ‘‘well you could do whatever you want’’ or ‘‘all you have to do is just walk into a interview room and they will hire you’’ - these comments come from former bosses who obviously are a bit out of touch with what actually happens at interviews!! But if I was to have any bit of resentment it would be at the people who are just entering this business with a view to making lots and lots of money, and with no real interest in the industry. I mean when I read some of chickentikka’s comments about all the Indians switching from engineering to finance, it just pisses me off, I mean wtf, it’s like a herd mentality following the money like a robot, and im sure most smart guys know there’s more to life than this. I mean when I was young, my old man (Dad to the Americans) would always switch on Bloomberg in the evening and I would just look at these numbers fly past the screen thinking wtf, and eventually I got hooked because of this, I mean obviously I would like to make as much money as I can, who wouldnt, but im obsessed with the markets at times, so when I see trends developing where groups of people suddenly want to work in finance it pisses me right off, thats the only resentment you could have. As for the quick entry or best route, everyone is unique man, and circumstances are unique, MBA, CFA, PHD, MSC, it doesnt matter which, sometimes luck plays a role, sometimes hard work… its all relative
I think what the candidate has to ask himself is, “if my company has not encouraged me to obtain the charter, why am I doing this?” If the answer is, “I want to break into…”, or “I want to show that I’m dedicated”, then it is best to focus more of that determination on networking. It is just as hard, if not harder, to effectively approach someone and articulate your interest in doing what he does, compared to studying for the CFA. All too often, the average CFA candidate would rather wait until he obtains the charter to express any interest in transitioning, as if the charter gives him the right and some kind of newfound confidence to now finally do this. This is the wrong approach. Instead, ‘ask and you shall receive’ should be the mindset, again, given that you have an acceptable background (excluding the CFA).
LOL - you just dashed all my hopes pawn, damn I was thinking once I pass level two I would have to be given a job!!! Im going off to cry now
pawn, dude, life is unfair get over it.
Black Swan Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > You sound like a whiner pawn. It’s not a > competition, or a series of steps on a ladder. > Maybe it would be constructive to ask how they > succeded in selling themselves so well. You make sound as if the world is just. Some people never have to sell themselves and others never get the opportunity to attempt to sell themselves. That’s just the way life is.