is the sole focus of the world financial market now… My question is - what do you make of those protesters? Yes, they are pissed about the austerities. But they have been living on borrowed time/money for a long time to be begin with. Would the Greek be better off if they learn from the Icelanders, who sucked it up and went back to work after their countries almost failed. Now the country appear to be on the right track. Thoughts?
Economically unimportant but a burning bush so to speak. The Greek population is absolutely retarded to be rioting, they put themselves in this mess, time to suck it up.
Errr… what do you want people to say? Other than man up and accept the austerity measures, what else can anyone recommend that they do? Bankrupt country is a bankrupt country.
Default is the other option.
i’ll bet there aren’t many doctors, lawyers, accountants or many other professionals rioting. those are the people who pay taxes. the dude who works security for the airport and makes 2x the wage of the typical security guard in any other country is the guy rioting. the guy who doesn’t have a job and pays no taxes is the guy rioting. who can stay up until 2am on confidence vote day to riot other than unemployed people? if we were to have riots in north america, i’d bet that most participants would be unemployed or severely underemployed. those are the angry people in any society…
I can’t believe that a country with a population of only 11MM people could create such a financial mess. Makes you stop and think what could happen if Spain or Italy had Greekish problems.
all the while… living in Athens, you wouldn’t even suspect that there are any severe, structural problems (unless you went down the constitution square where all the people peacefully protesting as well as the odd rioter and rioterress amass). Everything is rolling, lots of tourists, the cafes are busy, most(!) people are still going to work…
God forbid bond holders actually book a loss.
In a way, the whole financial markets are held hostage by a 11 million pop country that spend/enjoy beyond its means. Is it an option for Greece to be kicked out of Euro Zone? And have this problem addressed once and for all?
I don’t think so. The EU seems committed to preserving their union. Once they start a precedent of kicking countries out, people will worry that the Euro will collapse.
AlphaSeeker Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > In a way, the whole financial markets are held > hostage by a 11 million pop country that > spend/enjoy beyond its means. > > Is it an option for Greece to be kicked out of > Euro Zone? And have this problem addressed once > and for all? what a microcosm! did you built it in just seven days! behold the wisdom!
Penny-wenny Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > AlphaSeeker Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > In a way, the whole financial markets are held > > hostage by a 11 million pop country that > > spend/enjoy beyond its means. > > > > Is it an option for Greece to be kicked out of > > Euro Zone? And have this problem addressed once > > and for all? > > > what a microcosm! did you built it in just seven > days! behold the wisdom! Penny, you come up with some good solutions… What EU is doing now is throwing good money after bad or kick the can down the road, depending on whom you ask.
I am actually quite interested in the whole Greece debacle. As small as Greece is, I hate to say it but Greece might be too big to fail and cause a domino effect with the PIIGS countries. And if that happens, I predict a world recession occurring with capital markets freezing everywhere. Besides this doomsday theory of mine, do any of you know any good blogs, articles, books even about the European sovereign debt crisis ?
Is there a moral hazard in saving Greece? If Europe bails them out won’t they just set a bad precedent?
Everyone is missing the point (ok not SweepTjeLeg): the problem in Greece is that the ECB, French and German banks hold the debt and can’t afford to/don’t want to take the loss. The problem is more theirs than the Greeks themselves. The ECB & the Eurozone will potentially go under if Greece defaults. The Greeks are rioting as they have to take more of a hit more than the banks who bought the stuff.
Dude_CFA Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Everyone is missing the point (ok not > SweepTjeLeg): the problem in Greece is that the > ECB, French and German banks hold the debt and > can’t afford to/don’t want to take the loss. The > problem is more theirs than the Greeks themselves. > The ECB & the Eurozone will potentially go under > if Greece defaults. The Greeks are rioting as they > have to take more of a hit more than the banks who > bought the stuff. Not according to what I read. My understanding is that most of the potential losses are already recognised on European banks’ books. I understand that the problem is that liquidity would evaporate a la after Lehman.
Dude_CFA Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Everyone is missing the point (ok not > SweepTjeLeg): the problem in Greece is that the > ECB, French and German banks hold the debt and > can’t afford to/don’t want to take the loss. The > problem is more theirs than the Greeks themselves. > The ECB & the Eurozone will potentially go under > if Greece defaults. The Greeks are rioting as they > have to take more of a hit more than the banks who > bought the stuff. Well said Dude_CFA and sweepthje leg! BTW, every developed nation (almost) in the western world has spent/enjoyed beyond their means. People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
This is a close summary of the issue at hand, though I thought I had seen something similar from Bill Gross. Will dig it up if I have time. http://www.istockanalyst.com/finance/story/5239943/greece-just-a-symptom-of-the-real-problem
Viceroy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Dude_CFA Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Everyone is missing the point (ok not > > SweepTjeLeg): the problem in Greece is that the > > ECB, French and German banks hold the debt and > > can’t afford to/don’t want to take the loss. > The > > problem is more theirs than the Greeks > themselves. > > The ECB & the Eurozone will potentially go > under > > if Greece defaults. The Greeks are rioting as > they > > have to take more of a hit more than the banks > who > > bought the stuff. > > > Not according to what I read. > My understanding is that most of the potential > losses are already recognised on European banks’ > books. > > I understand that the problem is that liquidity > would evaporate a la after Lehman. Not sure about banks recognising losses. There was some talks of French banks rolling over maturing Greek debt. However, you are right about the liquidity problem that will ensue. However, do not fret. Our knight in shining armour (China) is at hand. They have plenty of moolah to make this go away.(at least for now)
The Swedish are laughing right now. They choose not to go the way of the Euro and kept their Krona. Good call on their part. Germany must be ultra annoyed