Question out there for those super keeners that have MBAs from a high-ranked B-school and a CFA designation (or candidate). How does the CFA program of studies compare with the finance/economics offered at your schools? Comparable in terms of difficulty, topics covered, concepts learned, etc.? Would like to read your opinions. Thank you.
My opinion: search function
at the top of this page click on articles
long story short: rigorous beating of concepts and formulations, career advancement = CFA more in-depth and potentially likely to benefit your KNOWLEDGE, less meaning with regards to advancement (unless coming from an Ivy school) = MBA.
I disagree with more knowledge for an MBA, judging from what I’ve read here on AF, in the media (some not unknown guy named Warren Buffett), and a few jokers I know. How much “knowledge” do you pick up by dressing well and preparing a presentation in a year or two? As opposed to going through 3 x 3500 pages of CFA material? Also, concerning an MBA from an ivy league school, it seems like it’s essentially a 6-figure networking opportunity…which I admit (networking) is much more important than any actual knowledge in the synapses of your brain, unfortunately. Furthermore, it seems like the top business schools are effectively a filter for smart and/or hard working people [a 750+ GMAT might mean an IQ of 145-ish or above]…nothing really special in themselves. As an outsider with not too much experience (and probably very naive too, I can be wrong on most/all these points)…I don’t respect the MBA too much and respect CFA way more. Read the story about the Harvard MBA’s performance at the multi-billion dollar hedge fund JoeyDVivre worked at…(anecdotal evidence, yes, but when you read many stories like this, you lose a lot of respect for “simply” the name of an institution) What I love about the CFA charter is that it puts everyone on a level playing field. Do you know and understand above a certain threshold…or do you not (and therefore fail the exams)? [There is some debate about how well the tests actually test your knowledge, but that’s a different argument.] And to end/repeat: What I love about the CFA charter is that it puts everyone on a level playing field without regard to educational pedigree, gender, country of origin, etc.
Also one other thing: Continual thanks to JoeyDVivre (especially, as well as bchadwick and a few others)… I’m learning so much, in terms of practical “experience” and theoretical ideas, from reading your past posts…like that story of that guy at that hedge fund. In anything in finance I’m unfamiliar with, your opinions are my first opinion (though obviously subject to changing).
dnoyelles Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > long story short: > > rigorous beating of concepts and formulations, > career advancement = CFA > more in-depth and potentially likely to benefit > your KNOWLEDGE, less meaning with regards to > advancement (unless coming from an Ivy school) = > MBA. No offense but did you read an article and/or AF post? Long story short should be: Rigorous beating of concepts and formulation and more in-depth knowledge within the realm of finance/investment= CFA More meaning with regards to broad knowledge but not in depth; door opener, network and career changer = Top notch MBA Under top 20 MBA is almost useless and I am being lax regards to what top notch schools are.
- To get an MBA, not being retarded is probably the key. - To get a “top notch” MBA, you first have to show that you were smart and/or hard working at one point…and then not being retarded is key to finishing. - In order to pass three CFA levels, you have to work hard and be pretty smart. That’s my long story short…lol.
It does not make sense to compare MBA and CFA; apple and blueberry. I am sick of listening to people implying that CFA is one of the toughest exam. As part of MBA program, you can take some accounting and finance classes that are way more complicated. I took an advanced accounting class and its coverage of the M&A, accounting for foreign subsidiaries, pension, and host of other things were covered in a lot more depth than CFA curriculum. Looking at CFA level I and level II exams, the questions were pretty shallow, but I agree the whole CFA curriculum is pretty broad and deep in areas related to finance. If you want to compare the hard work and smartness needed, you do not need to compare it MBA. Try comparing it to, say, a stochastic processes class or random vibration class, then you will know how tough a subject can be. The depth of maturity in thinking you need for these is way beyond what you need to understand CFA curriculum. Anytime MBA comes up in AF, people become very defensive and go in “sour grapes” mode. If MBA was so bad, I do not understand why society values it so much and no body even knows what CFA is.
The question is: do you really have to be smart to finish CFA? (honest question, no irony meant) Or simply incredibly dedicated and motivated, and ready to memorize tons of material?
1a. I think you have to be smart to finish CFA. [You don’t have to be a genius, but to do all the CFA levels AND have life outside of it you have to be pretty smart.] 1b. I also think an average CFA charterholder is smarter than an average MBA. [This, of course, is for the mutually exclusive case…also applies to “average” members.] 1c. In very approximate terms (and acknowledging the limits of pyschometric tests, their interpretation, and my own ability to approximate based on limited data/experience), I estimate the average IQs to be: ~130-140 for an average CFA charterholder ~115-130 for an average MBA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 2a. I think you have to work hard to finish the CFA. 2b. I also think an average CFA charterholder had to work harder to earn the designation than your average MBA.
buddham Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > It does not make sense to compare MBA and CFA; > apple and blueberry. I am sick of listening to > people implying that CFA is one of the toughest > exam. As part of MBA program, you can take some > accounting and finance classes that are way more > complicated. I took an advanced accounting class > and its coverage of the M&A, accounting for > foreign subsidiaries, pension, and host of other > things were covered in a lot more depth than CFA > curriculum. Looking at CFA level I and level II > exams, the questions were pretty shallow, but I > agree the whole CFA curriculum is pretty broad and > deep in areas related to finance. If you want to > compare the hard work and smartness needed, you do > not need to compare it MBA. Try comparing it to, > say, a stochastic processes class or random > vibration class, then you will know how tough a > subject can be. The depth of maturity in thinking > you need for these is way beyond what you need to > understand CFA curriculum. > > Anytime MBA comes up in AF, people become very > defensive and go in “sour grapes” mode. If MBA > was so bad, I do not understand why society values > it so much and no body even knows what CFA is. This was a pretty interesting post - MBA and CFA are apples and blueberries, but stochastic processes is uber-fruit. As a guy who has taken tons of stochastic processes classes (my area of specialization in grad school), it is just oranges. Most stochastic process stuff is very precise but the range of knowledge needed is very limited (you can go a long way in math by imagining that everything that ought to be true is nearly true, figuring out the details on that, and then fixing it up). CFA is very broad but not at all precise. MBA, CFA, stochastic processes class, running a decent marathon, getting a (real) blackbelt, being able to ski The Goat and not lookiing stupid, etc… are all just different fruits. They require some innate ability and then 2-4 years of work.
I think the choice between the two should depend on your circumstances and obviously your personal preferences. Circumstance – As for my circumstances, I was very foolish in my younger days (still am) and my academic achievements are not really noteworthy. Now I am a bit older and am regretting the discrepancies of my youth. There is no way in hell I would get into a good MBA program. Personal preference – For that matter, I would not want to do an MBA, it only takes 5 min of someone talking to make me fall asleep. So all taught programs are off limits for me. Additional circumstance – Due to the circumstance noted above, I have a shit job and hence no money to do an MBA 
I like the added advantage of anyone with motivation making a comeback with the CFA. And the best thing is that you are at par with the others. Many years ago I trained in martial arts and would meet like-minded people at seminars and competitions etc… I could not believe how people who had achieved so much would actually claim that their style was superior to others…anyone who got involved in “my karate is better then you kung-fu” argument, in my opinion didn’t really learn anything apart from a bunch of movements… Personal preference – Why did I train in karate? I joined the closed club I could find.
Anyway, those “my karate is better than your kung-fu” arguments are easily resolved in the ring. It seems pretty clear that they both suck without some ground-fighting skill like jiu-jitsu.
Top B-school MBA and CFA complement each other well. I would suggest getting both, if you can.
Buddham is right in that an MBA can cover many topics more in depth. I’m finishing my first year of an MBA and I learned more in finance, more in accounting, and more about Porter’s Five Forces in Strategy than I did reading CFA Level 2. The difference is that my MBA grade wasn’t based on one massive test that covered every topic I learned in 8 classes. In an MBA, you can cram before a final, it’s not that hard. There is no way to cram before the CFA, you have to know the material pretty damn well. As I’m entering recruiting and reading job descriptions, I’ve found that the MBA is definitely the way to go to have as many open doors as possible, but the CFA is what is going to make me stand out from my peers and get me through the door.
Both have their merits. I have my MBA from a top 20 MBA program and I honestly spent more time studying for Level 2 of the CFA than my entire MBA. I look at my MBA as an expensive entry fee into a broad network of alumni (of which I’ve utilized already). The CFA will enable me to progress at my job (currently doing a rotational program at a global insurance company, of which my final rotation will be in investment grade bond research), but it was a job for which I needed an MBA to have. I think there’s a time and place for both MBA and CFA. MBA is only relevant if you have solid work experience (of which the trend is unfortunately being reversed in today’s B-school landscape). Passing Level II of the CFA may open some doors for you, but without the experience…good luck
buddham Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > If MBA > was so bad, I do not understand why society values > it so much and no body even knows what CFA is. If you are serious about not understanding why society values MBA then I think I can help you to understand. But first we should change one word from your question. “Values to recognize.” 1. MBA is offered by hundreds or even thousand of schools all over the world while CFA is administered by only one organization. 2. If you don’t have business related undergraduate degree, MBA could be an ultimate ticket to almost any industry while CFA specialized in only one thing that consist of less then 10% of total industry. But here is the catch: CFA is CFA but MBA come strings attached. It calls ‘name of the school’. Versatility is one of the key to gain popularity.
jiu-jitzu is bad*ss. i always get a little laugh out of these sorts of threads with people who haven’t done a MBA thinking the CFA is waaaay better or even really comparable. they are apples and blueberries. CFA is a hard test, sure. MBA could go in a ton of different directions- you take your basics but if you wanted to get very technical, you could. if you wanted to be more of a generalist, you could. the thing about the MBA that i think is HUGE that you don’t get out of the CFA is the ability to work with others, do presentations, the person to person skills. maybe hardcore CFA enthusiasts would think these are “soft” skills, but those are probably the genius kids who breeze through the 3 tests, live in their mom’s basement, and post up here about having a hard time getting jobs/interviews. networking is huge, biz school is very good for this. doing group projects and making presentations in front of classes, taking quesitons under fire, creating/defending a business plan, working with profs who are leaders in the business community… all things I think that are very good in life. so they’re just different. both good if you can do them- anything you can do to make yourself smarter is a good thing. top 10 MBA school will get you interviews and maybe a job right out of school, but going to any MBA school will teach you things… definitely not worthless at all to go. if you think that a MBA or CFA is the golden ticket to getting jobs, it’s not. networking. networking. networking. i’d definitely say that the MBA route opens the door to this. CFA I actually just submitted my forms to join a local society… we’ll see how the networking is there. I’d think that events might be a decent place to meet some interesting people. only martial art of sorts i ever tried for a while was capoeira… definitely wouldn’t do me much good in a ring but very fun. oh, and I have a MBA and think the experience was great- i did a management focus so big in the soft skills and less crazy numbers. did it part-time, poo poo it all you want for being not top 10, but i’ve made a pretty nice career for myself so far with no lapses in employment for going back to school, got work to pay for the degree (free is good), and have made some nice connections over the years. no matter what you do- network people. a test or degree alone isn’t going to get you to where you want to be career-wise.
buddham Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > It does not make sense to compare MBA and CFA; > apple and blueberry Should be apple and blackberry… since both apple and blueberry are fruit and are therefore still comparable, lol.