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Recent musing of newly wed Millennial couple complaining about $$$

Convo goes something like this:

-Wife of millennial couple: “SF is so expensive.  It is so hard to save money here and find reasonable housing.  We just bought a house with our parents help [both wife and husband’s parents], but could only afford something way out in the suburbs.”

Later on…

-Wife of millennial couple: “Aren’t our brand new huskies just beautiful!  I only feed them the best.  Grilled wild organic sockeye salmon and seared steak mixed with XYZ brand of pet food [basically the most expensive pet food you can buy at wholefoods].”

I can’t handle the dumb and entitlement anymore.  This goes up there with avocado toast smash…

They brag about things they can afford and hate on things they can’t, that is some Machiavellian mind trick right there…

On second thoughts they are just bragging about their expensive house, who knows

we’re a joke in our own mind, all we can do is laugh at the punch lines

What is lust without devotion, what are feelings without emotion?

The availability of information in recent decades has enabled more detailed comparisons of lifestyles to be at the forefront of the mind, and, as a result, made have-nots acutely aware of what they have not. At the same time, extended credit has allowed a precocious assumption of certain luxuries of the next social strata available to people that in generations past would have had to wait to assume. The argument of increased productivity in society can somewhat close the gap of the increased consumption, but there is a net deficit between that increased consumption and the actual productivity. A reckoning is coming for some segments of the populace. 

"When what I'm doing isn't working, that's when I'll take your criticisms." -- Me, some time ago

Maybe because they are rich in experiences, they are truly rich?

“The aliens on Mars cloned Hillary Clinton.” - Turd Furgeson

It’s the complaining that’s the most annoying. I bet those people don’t make minimum wage which means there is always a way to save. They just chose not to. Don’t effing complain then!

To be fair, a new pair of Siberian huskies each year is basically a necessity, and I’m not feeding them dog food. That would be animal cruelty.

It’s whatever, just make it count.

- kDot

i blame it on credit card culture. nobody uses cash anymore. i don’t. why would i carry cash. i get paid to use cards.

the problem with credit card culture is people spend $5, $10, $20, $50 without even thinking about it. so they do it a few thousand times a year and go, hey where’d that $50,000 in discretionary income go?

Matt Likes Analysis wrote:

i blame it on credit card culture. nobody uses cash anymore. i don’t. why would i carry cash. i get paid to use cards.

the problem with credit card culture is people spend $5, $10, $20, $50 without even thinking about it. so they do it a few thousand times a year and go, hey where’d that $50,000 in discretionary income go?

I think it’s just an excuse. It’s possible to treat the credit cards like cash. 

i mean yeah, you have to be brain dead about what you’re buying as well. just because you spend $10 and don’t feel it doesn’t mean that you can’t look at the $9 coffee you just bought and go “do i need this?”

It’s all about competing lifestyle - and yes, easy access to credit certainly helps fuel this. In this case, the couple bought a house they couldn’t afford (without their parents’ help). If it was me, I would just continue to live in some sh*thole place. What if they get fired or there is a housing market crash? People expect some kind of standard of living, and will use any financial means to get it. Housing is the worst. If you’re making $300k combined income and buy a $2 million house, daily coffee is not going to move the needle on your financial situation.

Bigger question though - should the house now be considered part of their net worth? Abraham, where you at?

“The aliens on Mars cloned Hillary Clinton.” - Turd Furgeson

^spot on. keeping up with jones’. i have so many friends that are in debt but they drive nice cars, live in nice houses, long vacations. but they are miserable on the inside and the debt is weighin on them

"You want a quote? Haven’t I written enough already???"

RIP

But what’s the fun of waiting until im 50 to drive a Bimmer? I want it now! - every underemployed Millennial ever

Yeah, these dudes are entitled. I was delivering pizzas in my brother’s Geo Storm until I made MD.

It’s whatever, just make it count.

- kDot

Even though I’m a millennial, it’s annoying. High school classmates on my facebook brag about how they’re on the way to the top, but they are clearly too lazy to do anything. One guy brags about how he had a $50k job, but would rather work 3 jobs to make ends meet. They are definitely in competition to get the nicest things as soon as possible. I sometimes get that way, but then I remember I’m too tight and I’d rather invest my money in things that won’t provide a return. They complain about debt and how they can’t get a job. No one told them they had to major in underwater basket weaving. I can only imagine how our kids are going to be when they grow up. Kids are now getting cellphones at 8 years old…

ohai wrote:

It’s all about competing lifestyle - and yes, easy access to credit certainly helps fuel this. In this case, the couple bought a house they couldn’t afford (without their parents’ help). If it was me, I would just continue to live in some sh*thole place. What if they get fired or there is a housing market crash? People expect some kind of standard of living, and will use any financial means to get it. Housing is the worst. If you’re making $300k combined income and buy a $2 million house, daily coffee is not going to move the needle on your financial situation.

Bigger question though - should the house now be considered part of their net worth? Abraham, where you at?

Housing is definitely the biggest issue. In my observation Southern California re market is even crazier than NYC. While both are extremely expensive while it’s acceptable for a couple to live in one bedroom in NYC, it seems that in Southern California a three bedroom two bathrooms sfh is a bare minimum. It’s a puzzle to me. Is that because of lack of inventory or people’s higher standards ?

Yesterday my neighbor’s 1.5 year old came back from pre-school, plopped down on the couch and turned on the TV. Rough day I guess. One of the many reasons I have a dedicated TV room/den that is adults only at this point rather than a TV in the living room. I’m planning to move to the wilderness to live Captain Fantastic style in a few.

It’s whatever, just make it count.

- kDot

I think people just spend money to the limit. So, if they can afford to pay $1 million, they will buy whatever housing costs that much in the area. In NY, maybe it is a 1br apartment; in LA, maybe it is a house. The worst is that they consider this purchase to be their main investment vehicle. So, they put all money into this property under the label of investing.

“The aliens on Mars cloned Hillary Clinton.” - Turd Furgeson

One of the worrying aspects is that in areas where real estate as appreciated for the past 10 years, people assume it’s always going to be a rising price environment - so they purchase house to the full extent of their financial ability because a) they may not be able to afford anything similar 5 years down the line, and b) because they theoretically will not lose money on their purchase. Especially common in Toronto where people have been borrowing more to buy property and saying they’ll cover the difference because “it’s going to go up anyway”

its obviously a combination.

there are many people making $300k with a $2M house who live comfortably because they don’t go out every night, don’t buy a mercedes or high end audi or bmw when a vw or nissan will do just fine, and don’t spend on things they can get for next to free like coffee, tea and booze at establishments. also, organic v not organic. kids v no kids. these purely discretionary purchases can easily eat up half of your discretionary income or more.

it is more complicated than ’your house is too big’. i agree it is part of it but almost everyone i know spends an extra $5k on annual car costs than they need to. this alone could provide you with greater than $100,000 more house.  

My point is that housing is the #1, most expensive, most exorbitant purchase for even people who otherwise purport to be “reasonable”. You can’t say you’re frugal because you own no Porsches, but yet have a house that is 10x your income.

“The aliens on Mars cloned Hillary Clinton.” - Turd Furgeson

Matt Likes Analysis wrote:

its obviously a combination.

there are many people making $300k with a $2M house who live comfortably because they don’t go out every night, don’t buy a mercedes or high end audi or bmw when a vw or nissan will do just fine, and don’t spend on things they can get for next to free like coffee, tea and booze at establishments. also, organic v not organic. kids v no kids. these purely discretionary purchases can easily eat up half of your discretionary income or more.

it is more complicated than ’your house is too big’. i agree it is part of it but almost everyone i know spends an extra $5k on annual car costs than they need to. this alone could provide you with greater than $100,000 more house.  

It would be tight unless you put a huge down payment

I take it these are friends or acquaintances of yours?  What do they do for a living?

el_macca17 wrote:

One of the worrying aspects is that in areas where real estate as appreciated for the past 10 years, people assume it’s always going to be a rising price environment - so they purchase house to the full extent of their financial ability because a) they may not be able to afford anything similar 5 years down the line, and b) because they theoretically will not lose money on their purchase. Especially common in Toronto where people have been borrowing more to buy property and saying they’ll cover the difference because “it’s going to go up anyway”

Even more worrisome as conversations like this were exactly the ones being had between 2005 and 2008, and no one learned the lesson a decade after the fact. Here we go again. 

"When what I'm doing isn't working, that's when I'll take your criticisms." -- Me, some time ago

Interesting conversation gentlemen. Please carry on 

Worst case they default on the loan and live rent free for a year ;)

I love my cheese. I got to have my cheddar.

all our credit was hacked this morning anyway - best defense for unwanted identity theft is to have a ****y online identity (i.e bad credit). I guess Millennials had it right all along

I am to the point where, when I hear these conversations, I just get worried that the financially inept masses are so overwhelming that the system will come crashing down before I can live to benefit from the savings/investments I am dutifully building.

We need debtors prisons.

We’re gonna win so much, you may even get tired of winning. And you’ll say, 'Please, please. It’s too much winning. We can’t take it anymore. Mr. President, it’s too much.' And I’ll say, 'No, it isn’t!' We have to keep winning!

Destroyer of Worlds wrote:

el_macca17 wrote:

One of the worrying aspects is that in areas where real estate as appreciated for the past 10 years, people assume it’s always going to be a rising price environment - so they purchase house to the full extent of their financial ability because a) they may not be able to afford anything similar 5 years down the line, and b) because they theoretically will not lose money on their purchase. Especially common in Toronto where people have been borrowing more to buy property and saying they’ll cover the difference because “it’s going to go up anyway”

Even more worrisome as conversations like this were exactly the ones being had between 2005 and 2008, and no one learned the lesson a decade after the fact. Here we go again. 

In a sense, Toronto has never seen the long cold winter because our housing didn’t crash during those years - we clearly haven’t learned the lesson from our southern neighbours. 

thanatos0320 wrote:

I can only imagine how our kids are going to be when they grow up. Kids are now getting cellphones at 8 years old…

If I have kids, I’ll make sure to pay with cash at restaurants so they don’t see the credit card as some device that contains infinite amounts of money.

el_macca17 wrote:

One of the worrying aspects is that in areas where real estate as appreciated for the past 10 years, people assume it’s always going to be a rising price environment - so they purchase house to the full extent of their financial ability because a) they may not be able to afford anything similar 5 years down the line, and b) because they theoretically will not lose money on their purchase. Especially common in Toronto where people have been borrowing more to buy property and saying they’ll cover the difference because “it’s going to go up anyway”

My friend recently just put less than 20% down on a condo in North York. I told him about mortgage insurance and he said “mortage insurance isn’t always a bad thing”. He’s a teacher but his job is in no way secure. *Facepalm.