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BS - Feedback on this Ultra?

So after I posted some stuff on FB about the triathlon, my friend is nudging me to do this ‘do it yourself’ ultra. Its 50mi or 100mi. Aid stations every 6-7 miles with water/Doc Scotts Recovery Water RX, and BYAF (bring your own food). 

Seems doable and a logistical and nutritional challenge, which intrigues me greatly. Also, I think I can push my friend to greater limits, which may be the impact of me doing this race. I haven’t seen this friend for a while and it would be a chance to catch up. He’s been training for it or something, but he keeps saying that he will ‘try to keep up with me’, when I’m just thinking of going on a light jog and having a few snacks, nothing crazy. 

Plan would be to go into the event heavy in flutter kicks and other exercises that I could do on the trail for dynamic rest. Solid foods definitely first 1-2 aid stations. Salmon, Tuna a must. Later aid stations switching to more digestible foods and final stations just straight up juices, gels, and then a slow buildup of caffeine towards the end.  

Have you ever planned for something like this? Is it easier/harder than you imagined? I faced some honestly horrifying things during my 421mi week in cycling in terms of ‘ultra’ and think I’m going to encounter some of the same things. But, getting past that has led me to greater heights. Maybe I am an addict. 

Its 2 weeks after my 70.3 in New Orleans, so I could maybe try to peak in New Orleans for the 70.3 and be well poised for a 50mi or 100mi jog two weeks later… right?

https://calendar.ultrarunning.com/event/the-swamp-fox-ultra

"A theory that you can't explain to a bartender is probably no damn good."
- Ernest Rutherford

You know what… I wonder if Vega would sponsor me if I did 100mi only on Vega and water…. damnnnnnn I would request a multi and Vitamin D of 20,000 IU / day, but could go on only that if Vega will give me free product. I’d basically have to drink a ton of water and have to do a calculation on the efficiency/weight of water in that scenario, I think. 

"A theory that you can't explain to a bartender is probably no damn good."
- Ernest Rutherford

I just sent an email to Vega and some photos. hmm maybe will get at least a freebie. 

"A theory that you can't explain to a bartender is probably no damn good."
- Ernest Rutherford

Honestly, I think I could win a 100mi race like this, on the terms and probable size (small). What does that mean to be first in death endurance though? I have a hard time grasping the meaning of such a race, but would definitely be pushing myself to higher boundaries, even psychologically that could carry over to MMA. 

"A theory that you can't explain to a bartender is probably no damn good."
- Ernest Rutherford

Because knowing your fuel beforehand in my opinion is a huge advantage psychologically. The aid stations on the last 70.3 were good at times, others lacking, but I missed places where I really wanted/needed bananas and couldn’t turn around and best memory of really good aid stations was a ride I did in MA, the PMC, which was about 114mi I think for my route, with nice aid stations. 

"A theory that you can't explain to a bartender is probably no damn good."
- Ernest Rutherford

“Participants of the 211.72 mile event are required to wear a SPOT Gen 3 GPS Tracker. This will be provided to you prior to the event. This piece of gear is required to be on you at all times. It must be visible and not covered up. I am tracking each participant to ensure you are on course and not lost due to the very real possibility that you will hallucinate at some point during the event”

lol wut

"A theory that you can't explain to a bartender is probably no damn good."
- Ernest Rutherford

Image result for lol gif

"A theory that you can't explain to a bartender is probably no damn good."
- Ernest Rutherford

What is the farthest you’ve run? My experience with these is to keep moving (an object in motion…), learn what food you can tolerate on this sort of run (puking and pooping happen to many), learn your gear by running long or back-to-backs prior to race day (a wet seam that is negligible over 15 Miles can make or break longer distances on trails) and get the long runs in at least once a week. Different people respond to different training. Since you’re in shape from a cardio perspective, the specificity of running long is the main focus (from a body and gear standpoint). Train on similar terrain to the race.  

Oh, and depending on the race, do not be afraid to walk uphill. This leaves more energy for descents and reduces injury risk. 

you basically need to come from a target school pedigree/work at prestigious firm in the US/have a really good connection.

- AF hivemind

Yeah Ace, you’ll get physically wrecked and Brain Wash Your Face is generally right.  I’m not an expert, but I’ve run enough of these to understand physics and what you’ll be contending with.  As a general rule of thumb you need to run a solid 6-10 marathons or equivalent within about two years maximum to even have the pre-requisit to begin the discussion.  Then you would probably tailor some training to a 50 mi.  Talking about winning is just so beyond naive it makes you look like a teenager, you’re dramatically underestimating the talent out there.  What you did is roughly equivalent of snapping gym selfies and sending them for Nike asking for a sponsorship on your quest to take the starting QB role of the Eagles with no experience.  Also, start with a supported ultra with a staff and aid stations.  As Brainwash mentioned, you need to intimately know your gear, minor discomforts over long distances or improper strides can lead to major knee wear or destroy your feet and walking uphill for a non-professional runner is pretty much expected.  People have actually had renal failure from 100 milers and spent weeks in the ICU given the tax of the latic acid on your liver.  I mean, if you really lack this much self awareness, then go for it it will likely serve as an educational experience.  The mental, emotional and physical grind of an ultra is for most something you can’t relay in words.  

You aren’t really understanding the required physique, I soldiered through but the guys at the front of the pack look like this:

Image result for scott jurek

#FreeCVM #FreeTurd #2007-2017

Black Swan wrote:

Yeah Ace, you’ll get physically wrecked and Brain Wash Your Face is generally right.  I’m not an expert, but I’ve run enough of these to understand physics and what you’ll be contending with.  As a general rule of thumb you need to run a solid 6-10 marathons or equivalent within about two years maximum to even have the pre-requisit to begin the discussion.  Then you would probably tailor some training to a 50 mi.  Talking about winning is just so beyond naive it makes you look like a teenager, you’re dramatically underestimating the talent out there.  What you did is roughly equivalent of snapping gym selfies and sending them for Nike asking for a sponsorship on your quest to take the starting QB role of the Eagles with no experience.  Also, start with a supported ultra with a staff and aid stations.  As Brainwash mentioned, you need to intimately know your gear, minor discomforts over long distances or improper strides can lead to major knee wear or destroy your feet and walking uphill for a non-professional runner is pretty much expected.  People have actually had renal failure from 100 milers and spent weeks in the ICU given the tax of the latic acid on your liver.  I mean, if you really lack this much self awareness, then go for it it will likely serve as an educational experience.  The mental, emotional and physical grind of an ultra is for most something you can’t relay in words.  

You aren’t really understanding the required physique, I soldiered through but the guys at the front of the pack look like this:

Image result for scott jurek

haha yeah I knew it was somewhat naive saying that - wanted to see the feedback - lol

Ill have to give this some thought. The aid stations and fuel is everything. I mean I’ve put in 6hr days for 10 days I’m a row or something …

"A theory that you can't explain to a bartender is probably no damn good."
- Ernest Rutherford

brain_wash_your_face wrote:

What is the farthest you’ve run? My experience with these is to keep moving (an object in motion…), learn what food you can tolerate on this sort of run (puking and pooping happen to many), learn your gear by running long or back-to-backs prior to race day (a wet seam that is negligible over 15 Miles can make or break longer distances on trails) and get the long runs in at least once a week. Different people respond to different training. Since you’re in shape from a cardio perspective, the specificity of running long is the main focus (from a body and gear standpoint). Train on similar terrain to the race.  

Oh, and depending on the race, do not be afraid to walk uphill. This leaves more energy for descents and reduces injury risk. 

17 miles I think max with no fuel or water 

"A theory that you can't explain to a bartender is probably no damn good."
- Ernest Rutherford

^ but 6mi aid stations seems sustainable doesn’t it?

yeah to win is a bit far fetched, but just to complete - is that reasonable with proper preparation? I think my friend is greatly underestimating this as well.

"A theory that you can't explain to a bartender is probably no damn good."
- Ernest Rutherford

Check out David Goggins - he was a big dude that competed in a ultra marathon. I think rogan had a podcast with him a while back too. 

So maybe 50mi race for completion is reasonable? That’s 7-8 aid stations, 8+ 10Ks back to back. 

"A theory that you can't explain to a bartender is probably no damn good."
- Ernest Rutherford

ACE reminds me of a David Goggins kind of character.  He did not train anywhere near properly for any of the events he did…..but he did them!  (He also nearly killed himself with the renal failure and endocrine meltdown, though)  I would also note, as incredible as Goggins is, he sacrifices his true potential as an athlete for being a bad ass.  He know this about himself though.  His interview with Joe Rogan is worth a listen.

"But I don't think of you"..... Howard Roark

I don’t really think you’re properly grasping this ACE.  I don’t think you’re properly prepared or even know how to properly stock the aid stations.  You should plan for a 50 but all the advice you need (and are still ignoring) is in my first post.  Winning is out of the question unless I’m just completely overestimating the running scene in your area which I doubt.

#FreeCVM #FreeTurd #2007-2017

jinx WYG!  we both posted Goggins at the same time..lol

"But I don't think of you"..... Howard Roark

Isaiah_53_5 wrote:

^ but 6mi aid stations seems sustainable doesn’t it?

yeah to win is a bit far fetched, but just to complete - is that reasonable with proper preparation? I think my friend is greatly underestimating this as well.

lol on “proper preparation”!  You would need a time machine for that!  However, you have proven to be capable with improper preparation repeatedly so I guess whatever works for you and what you want to get out of it.wink

"But I don't think of you"..... Howard Roark

Comparisons to Goggins completely miss the point and is fantasy land.  He was also not a big dude when he did the ultra.  Goggins was a Navy Seal.  He also cut weight from 6ft 280 lbsl to 177 pounds in eight months before running Badwater.  Stop and consider the cadence of training it took for a power lifter to cut 103 lbs in 8 months.  He also had the sheer natural talent to do 2,600 pullups in 13 hours, only stopping later after his muscle tore and bulged through his skin.  

#FreeCVM #FreeTurd #2007-2017

Black Swan wrote:

Comparisons to Goggins completely miss the point and is fantasy land.  He was also not a big dude when he did the ultra.  Goggins was a Navy Seal.  He also cut weight from 6ft 280 lbsl to 177 pounds in eight months before running Badwater.  Stop and consider the cadence of training it took for a power lifter to cut 103 lbs in 8 months.  He also had the sheer natural talent to do 2,600 pullups in 13 hours, only stopping later after his muscle tore and bulged through his skin.  

These feats prove the point I was making.  You can’t both trash your body like a bad ass and expect yield your best potential as an athlete.  Sure… he did  2,600 pullups but likely his muscles will never be the same and therefore any athletic potential dependent upon them is lost.  You can’t lose that kind of weight in that amount of time and expect to have your body in top form.  I am diverging from comparisons with ACE here.  However, the main point is that there is a spectrum of ways to prepare (not prepare) as an athlete.  David Goggins has his reasons to do things his way.  Im sure ACE has his.  I can say that ACE did complete a 13 mile run in a half ironman fairly easily on no run training!  I get the impression he may be genetically gifted enough to pull off a 50 miler…..but it would not be at the level of his absolute potential as an a athlete.

"But I don't think of you"..... Howard Roark

KMeriwetherD wrote:

Black Swan wrote:

Comparisons to Goggins completely miss the point and is fantasy land.  He was also not a big dude when he did the ultra.  Goggins was a Navy Seal.  He also cut weight from 6ft 280 lbsl to 177 pounds in eight months before running Badwater.  Stop and consider the cadence of training it took for a power lifter to cut 103 lbs in 8 months.  He also had the sheer natural talent to do 2,600 pullups in 13 hours, only stopping later after his muscle tore and bulged through his skin.  

These feats prove the point I was making.  You can’t both trash your body like a bad ass and expect yield your best potential as an athlete.  Sure… he did  2,600 pullups but likely his muscles will never be the same and therefore any athletic potential dependent upon them is lost.  You can’t lose that kind of weight in that amount of time and expect to have your body in top form.  I am diverging from comparisons with ACE here.  However, the main point is that there is a spectrum of ways to prepare (not prepare) as an athlete.  David Goggins has his reasons to do things his way.  Im sure ACE has his.  I can say that ACE did complete a 13 mile run in a half ironman fairly easily on no run training!  I get the impression he may be genetically gifted enough to pull off a 50 miler…..but it would not be at the level of his absolute potential as an a athlete.

I disagree.  Point I’m making is here could do what Goggins does or even attempt to follow the example.  He’s on a different plane of physical talent and trying to draw comparisons is moronic.  Training aside you’re comparing a relatively average dude to a guy who is literally a Lebron of endurance.  Guy clearly was training too, maybe not optimally but very seriously.  You don’t drop 103 pounds in 8 months from a muscular base any other way.  He was also already a Seal.

Completing a half marathon is a non-sequitur.  I’m not even sure you’ve run 50 miles so trying to draw comparisons is just virgins talking about sex.  It’s not a linear relationship.  You’re not twice as tired at a marathon as a half and you’re not twice as tired at 50 as 26.  Things go parabolic and the game changes.  I mean, I ran my first marathon within 6 weeks of having never worked out in the prior 2 years and then completed a marathon every 1-2 weeks for about 6 months following that.  I can tell you even from there, my first 50 miler was a total shock I simply wasn’t prepared for.  Your comments are almost as delusional as his.

#FreeCVM #FreeTurd #2007-2017

You are missing my point BS…..and insulting my athletic background.  But I will let that slide.

"But I don't think of you"..... Howard Roark

KMeriwetherD wrote:

Isaiah_53_5 wrote:

^ but 6mi aid stations seems sustainable doesn’t it?

yeah to win is a bit far fetched, but just to complete - is that reasonable with proper preparation? I think my friend is greatly underestimating this as well.

lol on “proper preparation”!  You would need a time machine for that!  However, you have proven to be capable with improper preparation repeatedly so I guess whatever works for you and what you want to get out of it.wink

I mean stocking the aid stations in prep. So basically cold wraps on ice for rest recovery therapy, doing physical therapy during the race and on aid stations, max hydration, pissing all the time, throwing green tea to cold brew in the camelback.

BS - when did you feel tired - have you done a 50 or 100?

"A theory that you can't explain to a bartender is probably no damn good."
- Ernest Rutherford

My upper body strength isn’t necessarily a disadvantage. I could bring dumbbells on each aid station to rest my legs and workout my upper body for dynamic rest. But, this requires tons of food. I can handle that. Would just be a logistics issue that seems very challenging/intriguing to me.

Also, I’m looking to launch a new company/brand and these results would be the proof of my concept.

"A theory that you can't explain to a bartender is probably no damn good."
- Ernest Rutherford

KMeriwetherD wrote:

You are missing my point BS…..and insulting my athletic background.  But I will let that slide.

I mean, have you ran 50 miles or not?  It’s not an insult, it’s just simple statement.  Also, I get your point.  I just think it’s delusional because drawing any comparisons for any reason to Goggins is just feeding into a delusion.  They may as well be different species for this case.  

#FreeCVM #FreeTurd #2007-2017

ACE, your upper body strength is a disadvantage.  I beat you in arm wrestling and was multiples stronger when I used to run.  The ideas you’re talking about and your view of the rest stations is comical.  At this point, I’m out.  I’m leaving it to the people who have no experience running these distances to strategize because there’s nothing to add to my first post.  Entering this conversation has left me dumber.

#FreeCVM #FreeTurd #2007-2017

ahhh you guys/girls make me want to do this event more now 

But, BS - how do you respond when people ask why you ran 50mi? - just for the challenge? I’m still trying to grab the essence of this race.

Endurance/marathons/triathlons aren’t big at my MMA gym and if I did 50mi on Sat/Sun that weekend, I’d still like to make MMA class on Monday as I get no points for this stuff. 

The 70.3 was somewhat respectable I guess to some people I train with, but the BJJ people were out for blood on me last night and I didn’t tap out to any of the blue belts in the Gi session.

"A theory that you can't explain to a bartender is probably no damn good."
- Ernest Rutherford

Black Swan wrote:

ACE, your upper body strength is a disadvantage.  I beat you in arm wrestling and was multiples stronger when I used to run.  The ideas you’re talking about and your view of the rest stations is comical.  At this point, I’m out.  I’m leaving it to the people who have no experience running these distances to strategize because there’s nothing to add to my first post.  Entering this conversation has left me dumber.

Ok fair enough. It is theory I’m thinking of at this point; you’re right I have no practical experience in an event like this, but have done ‘Ultra’ type training in 2001/2002 in the military and did fine.

What distance have you done - how was it? Just looking for some feedback. I don’t know any other Ultra people.

"A theory that you can't explain to a bartender is probably no damn good."
- Ernest Rutherford

Black Swan wrote:

KMeriwetherD wrote:

You are missing my point BS…..and insulting my athletic background.  But I will let that slide.

I mean, have you ran 50 miles or not?  It’s not an insult, it’s just simple statement.  Also, I get your point.  I just think it’s delusional because drawing any comparisons for any reason to Goggins is just feeding into a delusion.  They may as well be different species for this case.  

The only comparison I draw between Goggins and ACE is that their prepartions for athletic events are both “eccentric” and not neccessarily conducive to peak performance capability.

I have not run 50 miles but between my multipule full ironman completions and also a solo 35 mile run, I have a good impression of what a 50 mile would be like.  I can say a 50 mile is as hard as you make it. 

"But I don't think of you"..... Howard Roark

Do you guys have feedback on Ultraman? Who is the most powerful? Classic Ultraman? Ace? Taro? Ultra Seven? Why do they always wait until the end to shoot the Ultra Beam? Seems like they should lead with that. 

“Visit the Water Cooler forum on Analyst Forum. It is the best forum.”
- Everyone

I stayed at 50M and ran that, I wouldn’t have ran 100M until I was comfortable at 50, which I wasn’t.  Ultimately I decided I could run ultras anywhere but I was living in a whitewater region and quit running to focus on that.  Best decision I made.  Anyhow if you run the 50M let me know for betting purposes.

#FreeCVM #FreeTurd #2007-2017