Sign up  |  Log in

CRA exit opportunities ?

So I will be interning at one of the big 3 CRAs. My role will be programming and data analysis kind of stuff and not purely engineering.

At worst it will be a glorified spreadsheet gig and at best working with STEM Ph.D.s on the existing code.

What kind of companies/roles (finance and non finance) should I be applying to after my internship with these guys are over?

Also what kind of skills should I be looking to get as the best bang for my buck during the internship?

Bump

If you do not know finance and accounting, learn that. You will then be very valuable if you understand finance and have the programming skills it seems you already possess. Also make sure you are good at Excel, because even if you do it programmatically the output may still need to be in a well designed Excel workbook.

More than happy to tutor you on these things while you wash my dishes. Just let me know 

rawraw wrote:

If you do not know finance and accounting, learn that. You will then be very valuable if you understand finance and have the programming skills it seems you already possess. Also make sure you are good at Excel, because even if you do it programmatically the output may still need to be in a well designed Excel workbook.

More than happy to tutor you on these things while you wash my dishes. Just let me know 

If you dont have PH.D in hard science, i wouldnt go quant / data science route. Your upside is very limited

comp_sci_kid wrote:

rawraw wrote:

If you do not know finance and accounting, learn that. You will then be very valuable if you understand finance and have the programming skills it seems you already possess. Also make sure you are good at Excel, because even if you do it programmatically the output may still need to be in a well designed Excel workbook.

More than happy to tutor you on these things while you wash my dishes. Just let me know 

If you dont have PH.D in hard science, i wouldnt go quant / data science route. Your upside is very limited

Lol,no I don’t have a PhD. I’m not planing to go the Data Science route because of the same reasons you have just mentioned. 

This is the only internship I got that seemed “Ok”,but hopefully I wanna something more promising after the internship.

So my personal vote was for the non-finance related one.  If I had a choice between working a pure tech firm or a finance firm I’d take tech 10 out of 10 because one industry is in decline and the other isn’t.  I’d be really cautious if you’re getting sucked into the finance whirlpool that that is what you really want to do.

#FreeCVM #FreeTurd #2007-2017

On a side note, the data science point was interesting, can either of you or CSK elaborate on the point about upside being capped as a non PhD in data science?

#FreeCVM #FreeTurd #2007-2017

Black Swan wrote:

On a side note, the data science point was interesting, can either of you or CSK elaborate on the point about upside being capped as a non PhD in data science?

You can probably make 3 handle with Phd working on regression models implementations and neural network, but this still be implementation and not developing your own once. Also, most top positions will flat outright require Ph.D

If you want to be in 500+ range you def need Ph.D in that field

Black Swan wrote:

So my personal vote was for the non-finance related one.  If I had a choice between working a pure tech firm or a finance firm I’d take tech 10 out of 10 because one industry is in decline and the other isn’t.  I’d be really cautious if you’re getting sucked into the finance whirlpool that that is what you really want to do.

The other company was not an option since the recruiter kept changing the terms and conditions so often I wouldn’t be surprised they would terminate the condition before work began (very common in tech companies to have really ****ty HR,but this itself was something).

Also the finance company is hybrid role so I can flip it as finance related to finance companies,business related to product management roles and quantsy developer to Software Engineering roles.

As for the whirlpool,I am looking to ideally work in fintech companies or some hybrid role (product manager type) in tech companies. My background is way too weird for a pure finance role I guess.

I would never say never, who knows.  I just thought the data science point was interesting because there’s as huge shortage there and I’ve been hearing backlash against using PhD’s there.  Also it’s been my part time pet project.

#FreeCVM #FreeTurd #2007-2017

Black Swan wrote:

On a side note, the data science point was interesting, can either of you or CSK elaborate on the point about upside being capped as a non PhD in data science?

What CSK said,plus “data science” is becoming such an umbrella term these days.

Everything from pulling **** out from SQL and writing Queries to developing Speech recognition algo is falling under this category and most companies just prefer to use the term without there being much overlap between these roles.

So the term “Data Science” is somewhat meaningless for people who are actually working in the industry as it can entail many different things.

SamCryBaby wrote:

Black Swan wrote:

On a side note, the data science point was interesting, can either of you or CSK elaborate on the point about upside being capped as a non PhD in data science?

What CSK said,plus “data science” is becoming such an umbrella term these days.

Everything from pulling **** out from SQL and writing Queries to developing Speech recognition algo is falling under this category and most companies just prefer to use the term without there being much overlap between these roles.

So the term “Data Science” is somewhat meaningless for people who are actually working in the industry as it can entail many different things.

Well, it does have a ton of applications, hence the demand.  It’s basically people saying we want programmers with more math/stats background.  The issue I think is that most people don’t’ want/need PhD’s and PhD’s mostly want to go do bookish things.  So I’ve seen a major rolling out of masters programs and heard repeatedly from people in the data science field that the PhD is worthless unless you’re trying to teach somewhere.

#FreeCVM #FreeTurd #2007-2017

Black Swan wrote:

SamCryBaby wrote:

Black Swan wrote:

On a side note, the data science point was interesting, can either of you or CSK elaborate on the point about upside being capped as a non PhD in data science?

What CSK said,plus “data science” is becoming such an umbrella term these days.

Everything from pulling **** out from SQL and writing Queries to developing Speech recognition algo is falling under this category and most companies just prefer to use the term without there being much overlap between these roles.

So the term “Data Science” is somewhat meaningless for people who are actually working in the industry as it can entail many different things.

Well, it does have a ton of applications, hence the demand.  It’s basically people saying we want programmers with more math/stats background.  The issue I think is that most people don’t’ want/need PhD’s and PhD’s mostly want to go do bookish things.  So I’ve seen a major rolling out of masters programs and heard repeatedly from people in the data science field that the PhD is worthless unless you’re trying to teach somewhere.

It is worthless, just like any degree is worthless, but i promise you (and i know that for a fact) that Top hedge funds / Top tech firms will only hire Ph.Ds for those spots

comp_sci_kid wrote:

Black Swan wrote:

SamCryBaby wrote:

Black Swan wrote:

On a side note, the data science point was interesting, can either of you or CSK elaborate on the point about upside being capped as a non PhD in data science?

What CSK said,plus “data science” is becoming such an umbrella term these days.

Everything from pulling **** out from SQL and writing Queries to developing Speech recognition algo is falling under this category and most companies just prefer to use the term without there being much overlap between these roles.

So the term “Data Science” is somewhat meaningless for people who are actually working in the industry as it can entail many different things.

Well, it does have a ton of applications, hence the demand.  It’s basically people saying we want programmers with more math/stats background.  The issue I think is that most people don’t’ want/need PhD’s and PhD’s mostly want to go do bookish things.  So I’ve seen a major rolling out of masters programs and heard repeatedly from people in the data science field that the PhD is worthless unless you’re trying to teach somewhere.

It is worthless, just like any degree is worthless, but i promise you (and i know that for a fact) that Top hedge funds / Top tech firms will only hire Ph.Ds for those spots

Hmmm, that seems to be the opposite of what everyone has told me about top tech firms.  I’ve heard it for hedge funds, but not the tech roles.

#FreeCVM #FreeTurd #2007-2017

Black Swan wrote:

comp_sci_kid wrote:

Black Swan wrote:

SamCryBaby wrote:

Black Swan wrote:

On a side note, the data science point was interesting, can either of you or CSK elaborate on the point about upside being capped as a non PhD in data science?

What CSK said,plus “data science” is becoming such an umbrella term these days.

Everything from pulling **** out from SQL and writing Queries to developing Speech recognition algo is falling under this category and most companies just prefer to use the term without there being much overlap between these roles.

So the term “Data Science” is somewhat meaningless for people who are actually working in the industry as it can entail many different things.

Well, it does have a ton of applications, hence the demand.  It’s basically people saying we want programmers with more math/stats background.  The issue I think is that most people don’t’ want/need PhD’s and PhD’s mostly want to go do bookish things.  So I’ve seen a major rolling out of masters programs and heard repeatedly from people in the data science field that the PhD is worthless unless you’re trying to teach somewhere.

It is worthless, just like any degree is worthless, but i promise you (and i know that for a fact) that Top hedge funds / Top tech firms will only hire Ph.Ds for those spots

Hmmm, that seems to be the opposite of what everyone has told me about top tech firms.  I’ve heard it for hedge funds, but not the tech roles.

You have to differentiate between people who build actual models  and people who implement models. 

Makes sense

#FreeCVM #FreeTurd #2007-2017

and people who date models! dont forget!

I love my cheese. I got to have my cheddar.

people who date models > people who build models > people who implement models amiright6?

My wife is a phd data scientist and I would agree with the notion you are capped unless you have it. I’ve met quite a few of her colleagues (in more junior positions) who are abs brilliant but happened to select a near impossible thesis and dropped out just earning a masters. Some of them, despite being more intelligent and having a higher aptitude, fail to climb rank just bc a difference in a paper degree. 

whatsyourgovt wrote:

My wife is a phd data scientist and I would agree with the notion you are capped unless you have it. I’ve met quite a few of her colleagues (in more junior positions) who are abs brilliant but happened to select a near impossible thesis and dropped out just earning a masters. Some of them, despite being more intelligent and having a higher aptitude, fail to climb rank just bc a difference in a paper degree. 

That’s pretty helpful, thanks.  I’m not looking at making any major moves near term or trying to jump into pure data science roles yet but am sort of circling the field / skill set while I’ve been doing some coursework just to tack on some quantitative skills.

#FreeCVM #FreeTurd #2007-2017

I have no reason to disagree with the PhD point, but I think people are too binary on this question. There are plenty of roles that exist  in between using Excel and having a PhD that pay well and are in high demand. Even in fairly simple data situations, programming means you can scale your output to be multiples of a typical person and of course that is very valuable to firms who prioritize that sort of thing. The economy is huge and more and more companies are starting to accumulate large datasets without the skill set necessary to use them.  

Comp Sci is right about building vs implementing models. I can use an open source machine learning algorithm and it only takes like 5 lines of code. But to build the model that 5 lines of code uses, I would need significant more education. But a lot of problems don’t need to reinvest reinvent the wheel but the output is still economically meaningful to the employer.  At least that’s been my experience so far 

Even some investment banks seem to be starting to try to emphasize code in their recruiting efforts. But I do wonder why you want to work in finance as opposed to tech. Tech seems to have the brighter future 

I am no expert in finance and the job prospects of it,however my wild guess is people here referring to decline of finance are referring to accounting type gigs being in the decline and not jobs for SWE or other tech types in finance.If anything from my personal anecdote finance companies are hiring CS grads like crazy and people seem to be making the switch from being a swe in a bank to a non finance firm pretty easily.

As for why wanting to intern in a finance related company vs a tech company ,I didn’t have any good firm offers for tech companies despite going to final round of two major tech giants so it’s more like doing an internship over some no name tech company or doing a quasi quant/developer role at a finance company so I took the latter. 

SamCryBaby wrote:

I am no expert in finance and the job prospects of it,however my wild guess is people here referring to decline of finance are referring to accounting type gigs being in the decline and not jobs for SWE or other tech types in finance.If anything from my personal anecdote finance companies are hiring CS grads like crazy and people seem to be making the switch from being a swe in a bank to a non finance firm pretty easily.

As for why wanting to intern in a finance related company vs a tech company ,I didn’t have any good firm offers for tech companies despite going to final round of two major tech giants so it’s more like doing an internship over some no name tech company or doing a quasi quant/developer role at a finance company so I took the latter. 

Yeah, I didn’t realize the other gig was messing around with the terms, you made the right call.

#FreeCVM #FreeTurd #2007-2017

I don’t have any concerns about job availability in the technology side of financial firms for the foreseeable future. Banks and similar institutions are trying to cut costs, and this means that they are trying to automate many processes, for which they need programmers. On the downside, it might be hard to get into an interesting product line, as so many of the projects are of the boring process streamlining or compliance related variety.

Regardless of project type though, it would obviously be best to get into a company with the best platform of its type, as other companies might hire or promote you to replicate that platform at their firm. Sometimes, some of these systems even spin off into independent companies. 

“Visit the Water Cooler forum on Analyst Forum. It is the best forum.”
- Everyone

At least from what I’ve seen, lots of the buyside job postings are asking for programming type skills. There just are not many people who know both, and Finance is much easier to learn than computer science. You won’t get a finance job solely for that CS background, but you will stand out ahead of others who are just excel monkeys that can’t handle data larger than 1 million rows 

ohai wrote:

 On the downside, it might be hard to get into an interesting product line, as so many of the projects are of the boring process streamlining or compliance related variety.

Yes,one of my friends got hired in a bank writing code to parse resumes and basically do HR related engineering,perhaps the ****tiest thing you can do as a white collar tech person.

ohai wrote:

Regardless of project type though, it would obviously be best to get into a company with the best platform of its type, as other companies might hire or promote you to replicate that platform at their firm. Sometimes, some of these systems even spin off into independent companies. 

I agree.

rawraw wrote:

At least from what I’ve seen, lots of the buyside job postings are asking for programming type skills. There just are not many people who know both, and Finance is much easier to learn than computer science. You won’t get a finance job solely for that CS background, but you will stand out ahead of others who are just excel monkeys that can’t handle data larger than 1 million rows 

Yeah.Also I don’t have any concrete plans for the future in terms of job prospects. I think the mixed background will give me better options.

I partially disagree with that statement regarding finance skills. Conceptually, this stuff might not be difficult. However, it is rare to find developers who understand the business work flow and can design systems that enhance the productivity of users. A majority of finance workers seem to dislike their systems - which technically work, but have many poor design decisions. Almost no developers have actually sat on a finance business desk. So developers who can engage productively with the business are very rare. 

“Visit the Water Cooler forum on Analyst Forum. It is the best forum.”
- Everyone