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Qualitative question about student loans

I do not think that there is any other quality so essential to success of any kind as the quality of perseverance. It overcomes almost everything, even nature. John D. Rockefeller
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/john_d_rockefeller_165071

keep on hollering my dudes.

personally i want my kids to be like my friends. spoiled entitled brats that lord over everything. without a care in a world. cept enjoying it and living off the hard work of others.

I would rather earn 1% off a 100 people’s efforts than 100% of my own efforts. John D. Rockefeller
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/john_d_rockefeller_165070

I love my cheese. I got to have my cheddar.

I mean, some people persevere but only achieve meaningless things… Like those guys who pass CFA after 11 years or something. Sure, you got it, but….

“Visit the Water Cooler forum on Analyst Forum. It is the best forum.”
- Everyone

Mike79 wrote:

Just curious, do you get any government incentives to deposit money into a 529 plan? In Canada, on a $2,500 annual deposit we get a education grant from uncle Justin @ 20% so $500. 

529’s never show up on a tax return.  No deduction. 

However, assets inside a 529 grow completely tax-free.  And withdrawals also don’t show up on a tax return.  (in other words, not taxed)

82 > 87
Simple math.

In certain states with state income tax, you can deduct $5k/yr in 529 contributions off the state tax return.

We’re gonna win so much, you may even get tired of winning. And you’ll say, 'Please, please. It’s too much winning. We can’t take it anymore. Mr. President, it’s too much.' And I’ll say, 'No, it isn’t!' We have to keep winning!

Black Swan wrote:

My plan for my child investments is for them to roam the wild streets unchecked, disciples of the school of hard knocks, learning the intricacies of porn shop financials and how to manage a proper dual entry ledger of instagram likes, models on the right, bottles on the left.  Eventually after years of borrowing from my children on low interest liars loans, I hope to enroll them in UCLA where they can pursue their own dreams of class mobility, from the C-Class to an E-Class armed with nothing but raw ambition, snap chat filters and a rudimentary grasp of the English language.

I’m sorry for your childhood.  It wasn’t your fault.  Peace and zen to you.

hpracing007 wrote:

In certain states with state income tax, you can deduct $5k/yr in 529 contributions off the state tax return.

Alternatively, you could move to Texas and get zero tax deductions on your state tax return.  Because we have no state income tax.  

God bless Texas.  And no one else. 

82 > 87
Simple math.

We’re gonna win so much, you may even get tired of winning. And you’ll say, 'Please, please. It’s too much winning. We can’t take it anymore. Mr. President, it’s too much.' And I’ll say, 'No, it isn’t!' We have to keep winning!

ohai wrote:

I mean, some people persevere but only achieve meaningless things… Like those guys who pass CFA after 11 years or something. Sure, you got it, but….

Nah I respect ppl who keep trying even if they fail a lot. A smart dude passing a hard test is predictable. But a dumbass passing a hard test now that is news worthy.

It’s like when you see an ugly dude with a hot chick, you know that fat guy went through a lot of trial and error to find a hot chick who isn’t vain. While a hot dude with another hot chick is not impressive cuz that is nature.

I love my cheese. I got to have my cheddar.

What? Don’t lie - the first thing you’d think when you see the fat guy is he must just be rich and the chick is a gold digger. 

“Visit the Water Cooler forum on Analyst Forum. It is the best forum.”
- Everyone

Stop trying to trigger Greenie, its a disease.

Also I agree with Ohai, I just don’t find people spending inordinate amounts of time and energy to get by at things they aren’t well suited for all that impressive.  Just seems like a suboptimal time waste, life’s too short.  Unless they’re literally not meant to be good at anything and they found a way to be good at something, in that case it makes more sense.  Still not really that impressive IMO unless you don’t get out much.

#FreeCVM #FreeTurd #2007-2017

Yea like old people. They really shouldn’t be in the workforce cuz they are slow.

also not all chicks are gold diggers. So high chance that rich fat guy will still be rejected.

but real talk I once went to a Burger King and they had special people working. I know it’s messed up but I got grossed out. Anyways there is a law that is coming soon that requires homes that take care of special people and receive a stipend from the government to find them a productive job to continue receiving stipend. Anyhow I think many of these homes will be shut down and converted to something else. Very sad!

I love my cheese. I got to have my cheddar.

you child’s success depends on your success. so your children is simply a measure of your achievements in life!

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/29/study-to-succeed-in-america-its-better-to-be-born-rich-than-smart.html

Georgetown study: ‘To succeed in America, it’s better to be born rich than smart’

Specifically, the study found that a kindergarten student from the bottom 25% of socioeconomic status with test scores from the top 25% of students has a 31% chance of earning a college education and working a job that pays at least $35,000 by the time they are 25, and at least $45,000 by the time they are 35.

A kindergarten student from the top 25% of socioeconomic status with test scores from the bottom 25% of students had a 71% chance of achieving the same milestones.

Even if students from disadvantaged households do beat the odds and earn a college degree, they still face challenges. The Georgetown study found that kindergartners from low socioeconomic status families who scored in the top 25% and later earned college degrees had a 76% chance of reaching high socioeconomic status by the age of 25.

By comparison, their low-scoring, high socioeconomic status peers who earned college degrees compared had a 91% chance of maintaining their status. 

I love my cheese. I got to have my cheddar.

This is why front loading funding to the 529 early is key. Time in the market, friends. 

you basically need to come from a target school pedigree/work at prestigious firm in the US/have a really good connection.

- AF hivemind

Greenman72 wrote:

Mike79 wrote:

Just curious, do you get any government incentives to deposit money into a 529 plan? In Canada, on a $2,500 annual deposit we get a education grant from uncle Justin @ 20% so $500. 

529’s never show up on a tax return.  No deduction. 

However, assets inside a 529 grow completely tax-free.  And withdrawals also don’t show up on a tax return.  (in other words, not taxed)

Ok interesting. When withdraws are placed from our education plans, the grant and growth is taxed in the hands of the beneficiary, initial capital can be withdrawn tax-free. 

so its like a roth but the spedning for it is restricted to education only.

I love my cheese. I got to have my cheddar.

Nerdyblop wrote:

so its like a roth but the spedning for it is restricted to education only.

Well the lifetime contribution limit is $50k (per beneficiary), and the maximum grant the government will pay is $7,200. When you want to make a withdraw, you need to provide a proof of enrollment document in order to redeem the grant and growth. 

^I think he’s referring to the American system.  

In America, the tax treatment of 529’s is very similar to Roth IRA’s.  Contributions are not deductible.  Earnings are not taxed.  Withdrawals are not taxed.  

The only difference is–with Roths, you have to wait until age 59.5.  With 529’s, you can withdraw at any time, provided that it is for “qualified tuition expenses”.  (There are some other nuanced differences, but they are minor.  Except to a tax accountant.)

82 > 87
Simple math.

Or you could just put a cap on university tuition fees and level the playing field

Liberal biased universities should pay everyone the same amount since they love socialism and are always talking about income inequality, from the hard working janitor, to the PhD gender studies professor, to the football coaches. They should all agree to the same wage and practice what they preach 

We’re gonna win so much, you may even get tired of winning. And you’ll say, 'Please, please. It’s too much winning. We can’t take it anymore. Mr. President, it’s too much.' And I’ll say, 'No, it isn’t!' We have to keep winning!

Yeah sure, believing education should be available to a broader demographic totally equates to requiring a wage cap. Makes perfect logical sense 

Griingo wrote:

Makes perfect logical sense 

Tanks! yes

We’re gonna win so much, you may even get tired of winning. And you’ll say, 'Please, please. It’s too much winning. We can’t take it anymore. Mr. President, it’s too much.' And I’ll say, 'No, it isn’t!' We have to keep winning!

Your two statements are not the same. Someone could agree that higher education should be accessible, but disagree with a tuition cap. You have taken an ideological stance and ignored details.

For instance, I’d support disconnecting local taxes from local high schools and instead fund them on a larger geographic budget. This would reduce quality concentration in rich areas and help kids in poor families access educational resources.

However, an explicit college tuition cap would be inefficient and would damage quality, since it would reduce funds available to universities. Poor kids who get into good schools get a lot of financial aid anyway. So, we could increase access by helping poor kids with high school attainment.

“Visit the Water Cooler forum on Analyst Forum. It is the best forum.”
- Everyone

Maybe, alternatively, we should allow the individual states to cap enrollment and to come up with individual systems to see who gets in.  

School #1 gets 5,000 incoming freshman every year.  Students are selected purely by the amount that their parents are willing to bid to get them into school.  

School #2 gets 7,000 incoming freshmen every year.  At various counties throughout the state, there are jousting competitions whereby the top 7,000 are selected and get into school.  

School #2 is has 10,000 incoming freshman.  There is a huge jar of jellybeans in the Capitol building, and all the applicants write their names on a piece of paper and guess how many jellybeans there are.  The 10,000 that are closest get admitted.  

82 > 87
Simple math.

Two parents walk in.  Only 1 parent 1 walks out!!!

“Mmmmmm, something…” - H. Simpson

ohai wrote:

Your two statements are not the same. Someone could agree that higher education should be accessible, but disagree with a tuition cap. You have taken an ideological stance and ignored details.

For instance, I’d support disconnecting local taxes from local high schools and instead fund them on a larger geographic budget. This would reduce quality concentration in rich areas and help kids in poor families access educational resources.

However, an explicit college tuition cap would be inefficient and would damage quality, since it would reduce funds available to universities. Poor kids who get into good schools get a lot of financial aid anyway. So, we could increase access by helping poor kids with high school attainment.

I was being facetious but fair enough, one is theory and the other is implementation. However, your statement about a tuition cap damaging quality is also based on an ideological stance.  Just look at the over representation of UK universities on global rankings. 

What do you mean? You cannot make an example of UK universities without realizing that the US is even more dominant in all academic measures. We are the most expensive system, but also drive the world forward. It is not perfect, but does have major benefits. Highest risk, highest investment, highest gain. That’s how America works.

Anyway, UK gets a prestige bonus, which attracts global talent and donors; the same reason why foreign people pay millions of pounds for Mayfair apartments. However, thanks to BoJo and friends, UK seems intent on throwing this away. You can’t keep living on pride without substance. People still have this mythos about UK ruling the world, but they are starting to get wise.

Ideas and implementation are the same. No point to talk about nice goals while espousing unpractical paths towards them. 

“Visit the Water Cooler forum on Analyst Forum. It is the best forum.”
- Everyone

The European economic system is increasingly under its own pressure (although the US isn’t far behind) and the almost complete lack of representation of Europe in the tech industry is going to increasingly disadvantage it over the next generations as they fall behind in that sector.  BlackRock has had a number of really great charts hitting on that long term thematic in their monthly Rick Rieder calls.  I think a lot of that was sewn (to Ohai’s point) by their willingness to coast on prestige and brand value as well as their economic structure which is more Median oriented as opposed to the US’s orientation towards the Mean.  I think both have major flaws and could benefit from adopting principals from the other.

#FreeCVM #FreeTurd #2007-2017

ohai wrote:

What do you mean? You cannot make an example of UK universities without realizing that the US is even more dominant in all academic measures. We are the most expensive system, but also drive the world forward. It is not perfect, but does have major benefits. Highest risk, highest investment, highest gain. That’s how America works.

Anyway, UK gets a prestige bonus, which attracts global talent and donors; the same reason why foreign people pay millions of pounds for Mayfair apartments. However, thanks to BoJo and friends, UK seems intent on throwing this away. You can’t keep living on pride without substance. People still have this mythos about UK ruling the world, but they are starting to get wise.

Ideas and implementation are the same. No point to talk about nice goals while espousing unpractical paths towards them. 

That’s funny, you respond to the UK being used as an example to counter your statement about a tuition cap decreasing quality with a staunch defense of the US and a rant about their superiority.

Did you notice that I said over representation of the UK in rankings?  I’m not saying that the UK system (or the UK in general) is better but you can’t really state that a tuition cap reduces quality as a fact when the top 2 universities in the world have capped tuition fees. Beyond the top 2 there are quite a few others in the top 20, all subject to a cap, some more prestigious than others.

The US system rides on prestige as well.  The only difference is the prestige is created by the excessive cost and the fact that it’s unavailable to a huge swathe of the population. That’s how America works. Sell the population the illusion of a meritocratic dream.

BS, I agree on the broader tech point.  My hope is the UK crashes out of the EU, Scotland vote for independence and we spend our oil money returning our economy to our innovative, entrepreneurial roots.

I love my cheese. I got to have my cheddar.

So now they’re blaming the strong job market…

I remember a host of articles like this one back in 2010 era blaming the decline in MBA applications on the weak job market and “anti-business” sentiment.

https://money.cnn.com/2010/10/06/pf/college/business_school_declines.fortune/index.htm

“Bolton thinks the low application numbers are partly due to the blame that has been placed on business schools for the global economic crisis, along with the bleak job market for MBAs, which has led to lower starting salaries and fewer job offers.”

I think this one in 2011 got it more right.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424053111903532804576566611053380594

“One bright spot for business education is specialized master’s programs. Courses for management, accounting and finance all reported increased volume. Applications for these programs have risen in recent years as undergraduates have sought to beef up their credentials before hitting the job market.”

MBA applications have steadily fallen since 2009 by HSD/LDD percent and the real reason is with the rise of tech and fall of finance there’s less demand for high pedigree bullsh*t artists and more demand for high pedigree STEM grads.

#FreeCVM #FreeTurd #2007-2017