Its not just looking alike, it is the process of being broken down to a commodity, wearing and looking the same, moving the same, marching the same, being the same, acting the same as a unit as a whole. Unit cohesion will be disrupted. I’m not prejudice against their religion, I’m against the negative effects of unit cohesion. If they want to serve in the government, fine. If they want to work for the DoD, great. If they want to be part of a military unit, they should have to follow the orders and demands of what the unit requires. At the very least, they should be required to shave their head like everyone else and shave until they get through the initial training. Coming into boot camp with a beard is going to cause significant disruption of unit cohesion.
Its not the wrong religion, its the only religion getting exceptions. You could look at rabbis in the US Military who probaly would prefer to have different attire, but are constrained to having BDUs (Battle Dress Uniforms) and a Jewish Star/Ten Commandments on their uniform. 
^Nope. The army has loosened restrictions for religious headgear two years ago.
Again, bearded Sikhs have been in the Army for many years, including even in some elite units. Do you have evidence that their presence resulted in a decline in unit cohesion? Furthermore, bearded Sikhs serve in other armies throughout the world, has it caused a decline in unit cohesion in the Canadian army?
Elite units are a different story. Many elite units enforce required beards. My fear is that the standards bleed to basic training.
I think people who have made this decision have more knowledge in this matter than any other person on AF. So the discussion is pretty dumb. It’s like a financier is telling a military general how to fight in a war. And btw, Sikhs have been regarded as the best soldiers in Indian army and have shown their courage in almost every war. So if anyone question their patriotism then its plain shit.
Uniforms with variations can be effective too
No it’s not. Militaries are made up of units, not individuals. I’d chose the disciplined and cohesive unit over the all star team. It’s not The Expendibles. The military has known this for a long time. Being clean shaven has a rationale behind it besides simply cosmetics. Anyhow, that’s my $0.02, I really don’t want to get dragged into another military discussion where people on AF start citing Call of Duty to support their sides again.
Asked my 2 military buddies who served a few tours in Afghanistan each and they didnt seem particularly concerned about the issue one way or another. Obviously small sample size but id imagine this is a thing that matters more to keyboard warriors than anyone else
^ The army leadership itself was against this. They’ve been fighting this move for more than a year, citing cohesion, discipline, gas mask fit and helmet fit (the last two were probably a stretch). This move came only after federal courts ruled against the army. So the depiction voiced earlier that, “the people making this decision know best” isn’t really accurate with respect to what’s occuring. It’s also worth noting that this is a temporary measure that is being conducted on a trial basis and does not apply to combat deployments.
On a stand alone basis is it a big deal? No, probably not even a little deal.
In the Sikh officer’s interview, he talked about how having his head shaved for basic was a moment when he felt he lost his individual identity. Which is kind of the point.
Yea, I can see it both ways. Obviously the point of basic is to break you and mold you, but it does seem like a bit of a stretch as far as reasons to not allow it are concerned. Im not knowledgable enough to have a real opinion on this matter, just figured I would ask my buddies and see what they thought.
At a soldier level I can imagine most people not caring, however from a higher level perspective I can see the “unit cohesion” bit coming in to play.
^I agree with BS on almost all of it.
The whole point of basic training (at least for enlisted) is to completely strip you of your identity and turn you into a mindless machine who immediately follows orders, no matter how stupid they are. The military doesn’t consist of individuals, but rather, cohesive units with a combined purpose and a singular mission. You don’t think for yourself–somebody else will tell you what you’re allowed to believe.
Gas masks lose their effectiveness with 1/8th inch of facial hair. (Plus, it’s really hard to stay clean in the field, even when you’re clean shaven.)
My .02 - If you enter the military with a consciencious objection (sp?), then you’re not going to be a good fit. Doesn’t make you a bad person or a bad Sikh. But if the worst thing they ask you to do is shave your beard, and you have a problem with it, then the military is not the place for you. Because, trust me, they’re going to ask you to do a lot worse things than that.
So, can anybody present evidence that the inclusion of bearded Sikh soldiers has damaged unit cohesion? There is plenty of practical experience with allowing bearded, turban-wearing Sikh soldiers in armies all over the world.
why cant u follow orders while having a mustache LOL
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Evidence? (edit - I mean, can you present evidence that there are Sikh soldiers anywhere in the world, other than India, where 80% of all Sikhs live?)
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Define “practical experience”
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Any of these armies have defeated the US?
Just curious.
^ Bearded hooligans have certainly defeated the U.S. in a few conflicts, maybe not an entire war. Though if the Bearded hooligans had F-22s and the tech of the U.S. maybe it’d be a closer fight. I’m not sure their bearded faces are the reason they lost. And yes, I provided evidence earlier. The Bearded Sikh Minister of Defense in Canada is a highly decorated Afghanistan vet who commanded a Canadian regiment. That was an operation in defense of the U.S.A. as well, by the way.
Seriously?
^Yes, seriously. I figure I could look it up, but I’m much too lazy. Plus, I don’t want to take your word for it.
Thanks, Geo, for providing an example. But you cited one example of one dude. This is hardly “armies all over the world”.
How dare you challenge the intelligence of this elite community ? AF is only consisted of True BSD types who excel at their jobs and get a ton of attention from the ladies.Be polite.
BTW,is anyone looking for a motivated and polite guy to be om your team ? I promise respect and admiration.
W8,
Some badass Army guy told me part of the restrictions on beards are due to gas mask protocols.What if it’s a safety thing and not shaving everyone down to the same look ?