CFA candidates like all people exhibit an array of cognitive biases, the most recognizible at L2 is the Dunning–Kruger effect - “people reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices but their incompetence robs them of the metacognitive ability to realize it”.
bid_offer_shark Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > CFA candidates like all people exhibit an array of > cognitive biases, the most recognizible at L2 is > the Dunning–Kruger effect - “people reach > erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices > but their incompetence robs them of the > metacognitive ability to realize it”. best of wikipedia? i just found out about that site thanks to the big picture
> best of wikipedia? i just found out about that site thanks to the big picture yep, I think BP is the best financial blog out there. Barry cuts through the crap like no other and is an all around cool guy.
NO exam will truly reflect people’s depth and breadth of knowledge, it just doesn’t exist
Every one seems to be so much annoyed with the results of some candidates.i agree that unfortunately some of the most knowledgeable people on this forum failed this time. But it does not mean that we should question the exam. L2 was difficult this time(It sould be that most of us were used to relatively easy,predictable, ALL covering L1 exams) so every one was in for a shock! Like all I never felt confident about the result till D day. As people have expressed earlier that there is a bit of luck involved in terms of what you get on exam. But same thing can be said about other exams also. I have taken computer based exams like GRE and GMAT and even they have their own issues.I thank god that CFA is not yet computer based !! Have you imagined not being able to revisit the questions you are not sure about? How will you feel about the fact that (say) on the basis of first 2 or 3 ethics questions you will be automatically put in <50% or 50-70% class? Why do you think that GMAT or GRE necessarily (with 100% accuracy) reflects IQ levels? The fact is that if you dont “reproduce” what you had prepared on the exam day you will suffer.
rus1bus Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I certainly do not question the ‘integrity’ of the > exam, but I have a question on its ‘fairness’. > > It is regarding having to read a page or more of > text before answering 6 questions. The exam is in > English and there are many candidates, who know > English only as their 2nd language. Since the exam > is to test your Investing knowledge and not how > good and how fast you can read long texts, it is > ‘unfair’ to those who have English as a foreign > language. > > Imagine, how well would you do if this exam was > say in Spanish! (Given that you do have a basic > knowledge of spanish language, but it is still > your 2nd or 3rd language). > > Dont mistake me. I am not suggesting they should > have this exam conducted in many different > languages. I am not going there. I understand it > could become an administration nightmare for CFAI > and the focus could get blurred. > > What I am suggesting is; they need to cut down on > EMPHASIS, USE and KNOWLEDGE of the language. In > L1, it is okay; each question has its own text. > But in L2 and L3, this could be quite unfair to > those knowing English, only as a foreign > language. > > It is like you are looking for best Tennis > Players, but you are also testing them on their > swimming skills. Which sounds like unless you are > a good swimmer, you cannot be a good tennis > player. It would be okay, if you advertise them as > good tennis players and good swimmers. But if you > advertise them just as ‘good tennis players’, it > would be ‘unfair’ to those good tennis players who > are not as good in swimming. > > Just an analogy. > > Anyways, these were my 2 cents. But I was > surprised it did not come up earlier in the > thread. As someone who did not attend an English school until college, I sympathize with your point. However, I disagree that extracting information from long passages should not be part of the CFA exams. In financial analysis or other finance practices, answers are not handed to you in a text book. You need to read volumes of material to find any sort of useful information. Often, you will be working under high stress and time pressure. Because of this, reading comprehension ability is extremely relevant to the work a financial analyst does.
Hello Mister Walrus Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > rus1bus Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > I certainly do not question the ‘integrity’ of > the > > exam, but I have a question on its ‘fairness’. > > > > It is regarding having to read a page or more > of > > text before answering 6 questions. The exam is > in > > English and there are many candidates, who know > > English only as their 2nd language. Since the > exam > > is to test your Investing knowledge and not how > > good and how fast you can read long texts, it > is > > ‘unfair’ to those who have English as a foreign > > language. > > > > Imagine, how well would you do if this exam was > > say in Spanish! (Given that you do have a basic > > knowledge of spanish language, but it is still > > your 2nd or 3rd language). > > > > Dont mistake me. I am not suggesting they > should > > have this exam conducted in many different > > languages. I am not going there. I understand > it > > could become an administration nightmare for > CFAI > > and the focus could get blurred. > > > > What I am suggesting is; they need to cut down > on > > EMPHASIS, USE and KNOWLEDGE of the language. > In > > L1, it is okay; each question has its own text. > > But in L2 and L3, this could be quite unfair to > > those knowing English, only as a foreign > > language. > > > > It is like you are looking for best Tennis > > Players, but you are also testing them on their > > swimming skills. Which sounds like unless you > are > > a good swimmer, you cannot be a good tennis > > player. It would be okay, if you advertise them > as > > good tennis players and good swimmers. But if > you > > advertise them just as ‘good tennis players’, > it > > would be ‘unfair’ to those good tennis players > who > > are not as good in swimming. > > > > Just an analogy. > > > > Anyways, these were my 2 cents. But I was > > surprised it did not come up earlier in the > > thread. > > > As someone who did not attend an English school > until college, I sympathize with your point. > However, I disagree that extracting information > from long passages should not be part of the CFA > exams. In financial analysis or other finance > practices, answers are not handed to you in a text > book. You need to read volumes of material to find > any sort of useful information. Often, you will be > working under high stress and time pressure. > Because of this, reading comprehension ability is > extremely relevant to the work a financial analyst > does. Agree. Reading comprehension ability is extremely relevant to work as a Financial Analyst. Yes, a person working in Chinese markets will have tons of material to comprehend in Manderin. Will his English skills help him there! Get the point? Comprehension skills are relevant. But since these skills are associated with language and since CFA exam cannot test these skills in other major languages, it should simply exclude any testing on it. That way, exam would be ‘fairer’ and on ‘more even grounds’ for all global candidates. Personally, though English is foreign language to me, but I have it since I started any schooling as a kid. So, it does not affect me much, but I know people who have not been able to clear L2/L3 just because they were not able to complete their paper in time.
yes there were some questionable questions, but didn’t we all get those questions? even in gmat they throw the odd curve balls and they state it as a fact that some questions are experimental. In the end we all had similar tests and yes luck can be involved. But if you truly read all the material and understand it, then it doesn’t matter if they want to add some odd ball question that was only mentioned in 1 paragraph… It is asking these questions that truly separates the people who went that far to understand the detailed material… In all fairness, the questions did come from the book. I certainly hope CFA did throw out the questionable questions, isn’t that why they spend 2 months marking before they give us our grades?
I also failed but I must say the test is fair to the extend that everyone sat the same test and I am sure CFA did not discriminate any individual. However, I am also fairly sure that CFA society also needs to make sure they fail a “reasonable” number of people, to ensure the registration fee is coming in. I believe most of us who put in a fair amount of effort but failed is going to retake as we do not want our efforts to be wasted. That translates into $$$ for CFAI. This explains why they grade the exam in black box so that they can make sure even if they fail someone who knows more this year compared to a candidate the previous year, regardless how many times, nobody can or will say anything. I have serious doubt on the integrity of the so called examination board who decides on the pass rate each year. However, I must also share the blame for not being smart enough to score higher relative to the passing candidates. The truth is, there is always a large number of CFA charters out there who supports the whole system, even if they fail you for any unfair reason, you just need to suck it up. I am not sure whether the results has become more random this year. To me, since I also sat and failed Level II last year, I was shocked when I found out how my results distributed this year. I seriously think this is something to do with some kind of new grading system or testing approach they have introduced when they reduced the number of multiple choice by 1. I would love to see some kind of regulation coming into this program. Maybe a strong competitor or something who does a better job than CFAI so that they cannot just do whatever they wanted. Meanwhile, I am trying to find a good excuse to quite the bloody program without thinking I am not up to the persistence standard.
There’s probably too much luck involved in the the CFA exams than I am comfortable (exhibit A: cpk’s experience). In an ideal world the exam would be fair, challenging and cover all the material. But we don’t live in an ideal world and the CFAI can pretty much do what the hell they like. That’s just the way the cookie crumbles. Having a big whinge isn’t going to help you pass the exams - working hard and a bit of luck will, so worry more about those things than the nature of the exam.
They are giving a certification, which has a market value.If they start passing everybody it will loose its value.For example suppose this year all CFA candidates study twice as hard as they did last year.So do you think pass rate will touch 80%. Sorry the answer is ‘NO’. At the best it can be 60%.Give your best, hope for the best but be prepared for the worst.Its a battle dude, survivial of the fittest. Having said this getting in the upper 35% of CFA L2 candidates is a tough task, a very tough one , but its not impossible.Like in a war you have to optimise your resources, plug your loopholes and strike with full force.If you have the grace of good you will pass.
I think this is a silly discussion. the test is what the test is and everyone gets the same one. You CAN say that if they focused more in one area vs another the outcome might have been different, but alas, they didnt and thats the story. Its possibly arbitrary since they dont cover all sections of the material for every test, but you cant question the integrity of the test. the CFAI does a great job saying that you need to know everything cold to pass. and if you dont – you might not pass. there are people who lucked out i am sure – but i am willing to wager that 99% of those who passed knew almost all of the material cold and would have passed almost any test of the Level II material on that day in June… Just my 2 cents. I am sorry for those who worked so hard and didnt pass – it sucks indeed - but its not the integrity of the test we should be debating.