Somebody say something about area. quit talking about money. the poor son doesnt really need all that. What area will suit someone with little FS experience? Research? Asset Management? Front Office? Risk? Something tangible please, I am in exactly same predicament and i am dying to hear department names or other functional areas. I am a Software Engineering Grad, not exactly similar but more or less in the same shoes. Thanks for everything anyway. WebSpoiler aka WebTwister1
Thank you, webtwister… Whenever I ask something, the discussion goes somewhere else…
Engineering = Operations. done.
here’s an answer…there is NO edge. Your engineering degree shows your problem solving skills, quant driven mind set, and work ethics. Thats how you differ from the arts majors and the business majors who probably learn a different mindset on critical thinking. But at the end of the day, you WILL be swimming with the best and brightest in the financial industry. Face it, people capable enough to be in the game were probably smart enough to get the engineering degree when they’re 22. Other traits can be obtained through on the job training. If you’re talking bout something that will set you apart from the other entry level analysts, I say quant related field will suit you best and probably financial statement analysis (we’re damn good with ratios and analysis). Stay away from asset management and research analysis because 1) engineers suck at people skills and face-to-face communication and 2) engineers cannot write an interesting report. 2 years in, no one will care what major you were. I have a Mechanical Engineering degree from Georgia Tech and I’m working in finance right now, so I think my words carry some sort of weight. Then again, I basically just used all engineering stereotypes to write this post. Here’s another trait of engineers: always wanting a black or white answer (or when we can’t get it, assign a safety ratio for a range). NOT A GOOD TRAIT IN RESEARCH. Analysts thrive on capitalizing on picking the right shades of gray area. If everything is black or white, then the market will always be efficient and no money would be made.
In my opinion, the best way to “career switch” is to go to a strong business school (full-time). I know this means sacrificing two years of salary, but if you really feel strong about making the switch then it might be worth it to you. You will have access to on campus interviews and internship possibilities. I fear that there are many people in science/technology look at the CFA as a way into finance. Although there are probably some success stories, I think of the CFA as more of a compliment to your entire academic/professional portfolio. It’s not a magic bullet by any means. However, with the right work experience, it can take you places. However, the original poster states that he/she already has an MBA so, it is to his/her advantage to use his/her MBA network to try to get into some kind of finance position. A big part of getting an MBA is the networking aspect. Even though the school might not be of any help, are there any friends from b-school that you could contact and at least ask for some advice? Has anyone from your MBA class made a move from finance from a quant background? In terms of what kinds of jobs to look for, I would suggest speaking with a few recruiters/headhunters and getting a feel for which kinds of positions people with quant backgrounds get hired. As far as “quant” jobs, I would guess that Risk Management is an option. Like I said in a previous message, most of the analyst at my company have an engineering undergrad, but I’m sure this varies from company to company.
asdffdsa Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > “Does anyone agree that Engineers are underpaid?” > > No. It’s supply and demand, baby! There are ten > hundred bagillion engineers out there that have > the exact same skillset (most of them are one > trick ponies, at that). It’s a commodity business > that pays commodity salaries. One trick ponies? Commodity Business? These are harsh words. >If there are few > slots and lots of people willing to fill them, > employers will naturally pay less. But if supply was out of whack with demand, how come financiars are making more money? Maybe it’s true at the entry level, but look at the engnieers runnings silicon valley companies. They get paid big bucks. >What they > “contribute” is largely irrelevant (and somewhat > subjective, anyway). Subjective? Irrelevant? Huh? I thought engineers created conrete things. Look around you. > Personally, I’m happy to see a lot of arrogant > engineering types hit the concrete a few years > after graduating. “But, but, I majored in > engineering, I’m so smart!!” Yeah, right. > Engineering is the most overrated discipline ever. > (If you’re wondering, I doubled in CSE and > humanities.) I agree that a dose of humility will definitely help everyone
Thank you all for your answers! MFE: I do not think I need to bother to get CFA to go into operations…I have MBA in Finance also…So, I think I am a little overqualified for that. Kevin: You are right. I do not have very strong communication skills, and I do not like dealing with people so much. I mostly like to analyze things and crunch numbers. You mentioned Financial Statement Analysis, but are not people with accounting background preferred for this kind of positions? vDiddy: Unfortunately, my school was an engineering school with no connection with the finance world…So I have to do the job search by myself How can I find these headhunters who can give me some advice on the issue? By the way, I am a she Thanks!
If you do not have strong communication skills, then you might want to consider to be a quant.
I know of a woman who has an advanced degree in engineering and is now working in risk management. So I’ll say, you should definitely try for risk management roles. Also, depending on how advanced your math/stat/modelling skills are, you can also try for quant positions as mentioned by ymc above. The thing is most of the more senior positions require some sort of relevant experience. you might have to take a pay cut or start at a more junior level.
MFE, our engineers are averaging 55k out of school and I don’t know any of them who get paid big bonuses (this isn’t finance–they work 40 hour weeks and dress poorly). I also don’t know any 25-year-old engineer pulling in anything near 100k. Again, that is preposterous. Engineering and IT, even in my area, aren’t getting paid what they used to be. In the mid-1990s, our first year engineering grads were averaging 55k per year out of school. We also had almost a thousand companies recruiting on-campus then. 80 percent of them no longer exist.
MFE, with regard to your pdf, I’m not sure an Ivy League institution in New York is representative of the “typical” financial career path of an engineer. Nevertheless, it would be a mighty fine engineer who has his salary rise more than 10 percent per year each year from 22-25. LOL.
Did you go to a full-time MBA? It is a bit strange that you didn’t make your switch right after you get your MBA.
abacus Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > One trick ponies? Yes, most have very lopsided, quant heavy educations that are relevant to little outside of engineering. Commodity Business? If an engineer with less than ten years of experience steps down for some reason, the bench is deep. He can be replaced easily. This is why engineering pay grows so slowly. You didn’t think it was a coincidence that engineers only get cost of living raises, did you? > But if supply was out of whack with demand, how > come financiars are making more money? They usually work a lot more hours and the work they do often contributes more to the bottom line (I’m referring to employees in middle and senior roles here who may make tens of millions for their respective companies). Maybe it’s true at the entry level, but look at the engnieers runnings silicon valley companies. They get paid big bucks. Yes, look at the extreme outliers. That’s a good idea. What they “contribute” is largely irrelevant (and somewhat subjective, anyway). > Subjective? Irrelevant? Huh? I thought engineers > created conrete things. Look around you. Hence the quotes (see the previous comment that I was responding to). Yes, they make concrete things, etc. How is that “contributing” more than doctors, lawyers, entrepreneurs, financiers or anyone else that makes a positive impact on society? > I agree that a dose of humility will definitely > help everyone I liked this. Subtle, but effective haha. Engineering is a fine course of study. I majored in engineering. So did half of the people in my family. But it’s wrong when people who majored in engineering feel entitled to something or swagger around like they are better than everyone else that didn’t major in engineering. Contrary to what some people believe, not everyone WANTED to major in engineering in college… it’s not that people majored in other subjects just because they weren’t admitted to engineering school. If this doesn’t apply to you, then so be it. Further, engineers have no advantage in fundamentally-based finance and actually may be at a disadvantage if they are trying to solve the market with quant only.
The school was in the middle of nowhere altough it was a good engineering school and the career office was very poor. That is why I could not land a job in finance… I just have undergraduate engineering degree, not master’s or something… Would risk management require advanced degree in engineering? Thanks!
Minocfa: Just do an internet searcg for recruiters. Many of the big recruiting companies will have a financial arm. Call them and set up an appointment with a recruiter in your area, and see what kind of feedback they give you. Go to a couple different ones, and see what kind of impression you get. The most important thing to realize is that YOU have to do this. We can give you advice, but ultimately it’s up to you. No one is just going to give you a job these days. Use all your available resources (friends, alumni networks, etc), and try to build up your connections. Even though you said that you’re somewhat introverted, you need to put yourself out there. In my experience, you’re selling an interveiwer on your personality just as much as your technical skills.
kkent Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > MFE, our engineers are averaging 55k out of school > and I don’t know any of them who get paid big > bonuses (this isn’t finance–they work 40 hour > weeks and dress poorly). I also don’t know any > 25-year-old engineer pulling in anything near > 100k. Again, that is preposterous. Engineering > and IT, even in my area, aren’t getting paid what > they used to be. In the mid-1990s, our first year > engineering grads were averaging 55k per year out > of school. We also had almost a thousand > companies recruiting on-campus then. 80 percent > of them no longer exist. wow, didn’t know so many were so passionate about how much 3rd year engineers make. Ok so if I say $60-$90 K will that make everybody happy? BTW, I do know many engineers in the 80-100++ range. Some work for defense companies designing airport simulation software, others work as nuclear engineers for utility company, some work for IBM as project managers and at BofA in project management … age range from 25-28. so i’d say 3rd year to 6 years out of school… any rate my whole point is engineer to make $200K+ is not impossible but much more difficult then a career in finance.
I don’t think you need an advanced degree in Engineering to do risk management per se. But its a wide field - it all depends on the kind of job you are looking for.
i think engineering students should be proud of themselves. Comparing to some other majors such as econ, international studies, social science… etc… we busted our asses. It makes me jealous to see other ppl partying none stop on a weekday whereas i have to study for the next day’s quizes. But finance majors at top schools are different than these bullsht majors tho. These ppl earned my respect because i know they had to be smart and hard worker to get there iinthe first place.
ancientmtk Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > i think engineering students should be proud of > themselves. Comparing to some other majors such > as econ, international studies, social science… > etc… we busted our asses. It makes me jealous > to see other ppl partying none stop on a weekday > whereas i have to study for the next day’s quizes. A lot of other people busted their asses, too. You didn’t work harder than any of the hardest working students in any other majors. Cut the crap. > But finance majors at top schools are different > than these bullsht majors tho. These ppl earned > my respect because i know they had to be smart and > hard worker to get there iinthe first place. Nobody cares about earning your respect. Lots of people in lots of majors are smart. There are a ton of liberal arts and other “bullsht” majors that go on to have great careers in law, banking, medicine, etc. Not everyone wants to be an engineer or study engineering. You need to get over yourself.
true alot of other ppl busted their ass. Props to them. Im not saying anything else about their abilities. But I do know alot of these people cannot get jobs after grad because they don’t have any special talent. If a guy is working harder than you, be aware that they eventually will go further than you. You need to re read my post. I did not mention anything about engineering > all others. Noob.