monk Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > As for “making it more difficult where it > counts”-go read the CFA paper by Jan Squires-it > will tell you that CFA has moved from open-ended > questions to the CRQ format. > Open ended questions are more difficult to > answer-you need to think about what to say-not > just sit-out some ready made answer- and more > difficult to mark- the marker must think more > about the questionand the answer. > > Remember that the CFA programme is considered a > Post-Grad course-so thinking especially at Level > 3; should not be a problem-should it? This was a bit off-topic - but here I think the point is that god knows how many people are taking this exam worldwide and are relying on non-institute teachers, etc— and if you start grading ‘thinking’, that’s a whole different ballgame. Going back to the essay vs. bullet point bit, I’m bowing out of this thread with this last - I think you can write however suits you without worrying about the grader’s interest level or understanding. My view is bullet points are faster and more effective.
Think of it this way-let’s say you’re an examiner-and you have been given a marking scheme geared to short phrases/bullet points. You are marking a number of papers (quantum unknown , but we do know that number of candidates at all levels is increasing-we do not know if the number of markers has been increased also) Your are working to a deadline-then you encounter answers in full sentences -how do think you will react? Do you think you are going to put in the extra effort needed to read/comprehend a complete essay compared to bullet points-or-and this is really the point-are you going to work on auto-pilot, look at your marking scheme-and quickly conclude that the candidate has not answered the question? I have had to mark student essays and papers in accounting-classes of 30-40 -sometimes 2-3 classes of 30-40; it takes effort not to slip into autopilot mode. So-the issue here , the possible flaw in the marking system: if CFA L3 AM Session marking schemes are geared towards short phrases/bullet points-and we are not told explicitly (remember I picked this up from a presentation Bob Johnson gave in the UK) that this is the case, are we who write in essay form simply not having our answers properly read?
I’d write in wingdings if the CFAi recommended it.
monk, have you actually taken L3? The way the questions are written, it’s actually hard to write an essay about it. Some will have a complete sentence, maybe two, and others can boil it down to one or two phrases posted as bullet points. Whether you include an extra preposition or conjunction isn’t going to make a huge difference for the kind of question they ask. In fact, for all but a few, if you find yourself writing an essay, it’s more likely that you don’t understand the material sufficiently to zero in on an answer, and you’ll be doing one of the things that doesn’t give you points, like justifying both sides, when the question asks you to make a choice. There may be one or two subquestions that actually do need a sentence or two answer and not bullet points. Usually it will be so obvious that this is required that you won’t even think to use a bullet point.
monk Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Think of it this way-let’s say you’re an > examiner-and you have been given a marking scheme > geared to short phrases/bullet points. > You are not given a marking scheme - you are part of the process of making one up. > > You are marking a number of papers (quantum > unknown , but we do know that number of candidates > at all levels is increasing-we do not know if the > number of markers has been increased also) > I can do about 300/day. > > Your are working to a deadline-then you encounter > answers in full sentences -how do think you will > react? No deadline - just grade as many as you can grade carefully > Do you think you are going to put in the > extra effort needed to read/comprehend a complete Of course. > essay compared to bullet points-or-and this is > really the point-are you going to work on > auto-pilot, You have a completely wrong impression of graders. These are charterholders who gave up their vacations to grade exams. Auto-pilot?! These are people dedicated to a process they believe in. > look at your marking scheme-and > quickly conclude that the candidate has not > answered the question? > I have had to mark student essays and papers in > accounting-classes of 30-40 -sometimes 2-3 classes > of 30-40; it takes effort not to slip into > autopilot mode. > It takes effort to just about any job well. Bullet points is a good way of making sure that if a grader’s attention ebbs, you don’t get whacked. There are a variety of other checks though. > So-the issue here , the possible flaw in the > marking system: if CFA L3 AM Session marking > schemes are geared towards short phrases/bullet > points-and we are not told explicitly (remember I > picked this up from a presentation Bob Johnson > gave in the UK) that this is the case, are we who > write in essay form simply not having our answers > properly read? Why would you write essays when you are told this is a bad idea. For example; Q: Give three assumptions of the Black Scholes option pricing model. A1: The Black Scholes option pricing model relies on many assumptions. These assumptions may not all be valid such as deterministic interest rates and many of them are not consistent with market prices like same volatility at all strikes. In particular, the assumption that the underlier is log-normal is not at all likely to be true as shown by the 1987 stock market crash. A2: - Same volatility at all strikes - Deterministic interest rate - Log-normal distribution of the underlier Which answer is better? They are probably both three point answers but A1 takes longer, gives excess irrelevant information, is harder to grade, harder to check yourself, more difficult to modify if you find an error, etc… Practice answers like A2 and you will find all kinds of other benefits besides assuaging demonic graders.
I would have forgotten about the “same volatility at all strikes” part. 
my response to some of the issues raised: To bchadwick: suffice to say that I have sat the CFA exams at all levels-as well as other exams-as well as written thesis, academic journal articles-so cannot agree that I am writing in essay form I cannot have zeroed in on the issues.I have also tutored -and have had to mark essays, long assingments , exams myself. To JoeyDVivre : Re: Why would you write essays when you are told this is a bad idea Where have candidates explicitly been told in the material provided them that this is a bad idea? Re:"You are not given a marking scheme - you are part of the process of making one up. " While it may be true that graders “are part of the process of making one up” utlimately all markers work to a marking scheme-yes? Re:No deadline - just grade as many as you can grade carefully how can there have been no deadline when we were told that results would be issued on Aug 19?-even in other years there has been a rough indication of results date. RE: You have a completely wrong impression of graders. These are charterholders who gave up their vacations to grade exams. Auto-pilot?! These are people dedicated to a process they believe in. This is only human -something that one must expect-a bit of like the acceptance now if irrationality in investors. In any case you yourself have said: Bullet points is a good way of making sure that if a grader’s attention ebbs, you don’t get whacked.
bump bump bump…
so the troll has been b*tching about this since 2008. Here’s an idea: How about less b*tching and more studying?
Monk, when it comes to the essay questions…
Here is a recipe for failure:
Spend 15 seconds coming up with the first response to enter your mind.
Spend 4 minutes, 45 seconds writing an “academic journal” style explanation of your random idea.
Here is a recipe for success:
Spend 4 minutes considering which response is correct, or at least which response has the highest probability of getting the most points.
Spend 1 minute writing a few bullet points that easily demonstrate you know the correct answer.
I think it is pretty obvious which approach you took, and what the results were. Let it go, I don’t want to read it anymore!
I don’t know if it’s already answered, but surely the CFAI should provide sample responses that earn full marks. This can easily be done for prior exams that they release. Ideally, they should provide the absolute minimum that would earn full marks, or other alternatives which might not be explicit in key words but is essentially the same thing.
They state when disclosing past exams that written responses don’t need to be as detailed as the sample answer provided… and that bullet points are acceptable, if not preferred. However, if we need to hit ‘key words’ and explain it in context, we need examples from an actual question.
I know Schweser does it for their mocks, but I cannot be entirely sure whether it really is sufficient.
Let me run through a made-up example.
Q. Is Investment A appropriate for Jimmy, and explain why? (6 marks)
A1.
No.
- Expected return too low (lower than actuarial rate)
- Aversion to stocks
or
A2.
Investment A is not appropriate. Reasons:
- Required return calculated as the actuarial rate of 6%. Expected return of 5% is lower. Therefore inappropriate as expected return less than required return.
- Jimmy states stocks not preferred which Investment A includes. Therefore, inappropriate.
The second option takes 3 times longer to type.
So without a model response from CFAI, with the ‘key words’ required… it’s hard to write quickly and confidently.
I wrote in full and passed.
Monk, time is running out for the 2013 Lv III exam. If you don’t start early NOW but keep showing how cynical you are in AF, I can say you are destinated to fail once again.
If you don’t want to face Lv III again, just sign off and go away and never come back AF. This can make you feel better.
When I wrote, I used full sentences (at least mostly, I think I bulleted a few lists where that seemed effective), however, I did keep the language short and clear.
Write whichever way best works for you to convey the answer. But remember the mantra: “question asked, question answered”. Keep your eye on the ball, work efficiently, and if you know your stuff, you will pass, bullets or sentences.
I can’t believe this fruitcake has been at this for the past FIVE years at least.
Good!Another one who has passed L3-like I said , more, more and keep it coming
I don’t understand…Monk, what are you looking for?
I think he’s convinced himself that he’s some sort of martyr to his own stupidity.
he is ALIVE!!
monk is looking for verification that the grading process is rigged and non-english speaking charterholders are the reason that he has failed repeatedly, as they do not understand his phrases and sentences. it is a legitmate and original excuse, i give him that.
Continue to fight the good fight monk. Those of us who know the truth are with you. Rest assured that many of us continue to work behind the scenes to right the wrongs that CFAI refuses to acknowledge.
veritas non mori