CFA Complete Waste of Time; Here's Why...

CFA General
#21

I am the farthest thing from a CFA charterholder. I am a Level 1 candidate.

This year I had three interviews:

  • two in asset management
  • one with an investment dealer

Guys, I am not sure why you resort to calling me angry, bitter or jaded.

While I may come across as such, I challenege you to find me CGA/CMA/CA listings. Then find CFA listings as well.

I sincerely hope I can keep this thread going forever so many younger people can view it.

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This whole misconception younger people have of glamour and high salary is HOGWASH.

I challenge you to find me a CGA/CMA/CA entry-level guy making below $55K. Most CGA/CMA/CA guys at the middle/intermediate level are over $65K.

Experienced CA’s have an UNLIMITED salary potential.

How much is your entry-level CFA monkey making? About $50-65K. Experienced CFA about $70-80K.

"But, but, but, but my boss with a CFA makes $200K. Really? How many similar jobs are there out there? Similar to your boss’ job? You can probably count top-level CFA jobs on one hand.

Top-level CA/CMA jobs are unlimited.

Younger people, feel free to msg me for any further questions you have…

#22

Guys, these types of immature responses are really weak.

What on earth does this mean:

_ “Also someone who doesn’t have a Bloomberg where every job posting mentions CFA as a prerequisite.” _

I really don’t get that statement.

Secondly, me passing or failing the CFA exams has nothing to do with the fact that there are NO realistic CFA opportunities out there. Do you see what I mean?

This fellow also has “nyc” in his username. I am going to go ahead and assume he either lives in that toilet of a city or loves it. Typical attitude of a New Yorker - i.e. psychopathic, lonely and pretentious finance dork.

#23

Bleach: you lost credibility when you said you were a Level 1 candidate. I need not say anymore.

You were much more enthusiastic in 2011 (was that before you learned of your score?). So save us the faux diatribes and anti-CFA hysterics.

Your words:

#24

You lost credibility when you failed to notice that I’ve already had three interviews this year. Read couple of posts above.

Most importantly, the first interview was during last semester of university. The other two were a couple of months after graduation.

With that in mind it is reasonable to conclude that even without CFA on my resume if I can get so much attention from reputable Bay Street asset managers, then my chances with CFA on the resume would be much higher.

Keep that in mind and tell me if I need to be bitter or prove my credibility to you???

I am a very capable guy and I know how to track down names within firms. I know how to get in touch with them and get an interview as well.

You’d be surprised how much of a dumbass IAM NOT.

Lastly, with my knowledge and experience of finance culture so far I am trying to guide the younger undergrads away from this route.

Stope fantasizing guys, it’s fucking ridiculous out there. THEY WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR EDUCATION OR YOUR CFA. THEY LOOK AT YOUR STATUS, CLASS, RACE ETC.

I highly encourage younger undergrad guys to msg me for further details as to why they should AVOID THE CFA like a disease.

#25

You should also note that in none of my own posts did I mention I am not pursuing the CFA.

I am still going the CFA route, but not on Bay Street in particular.

I’d rather be in Business Development, or on the corporate side…WHERE EVER PEOPLE ARE F*CKING NORMAL and not asking me my age, race, social standing during the bloody interview.

Ridiculous.

#26

All I can add to this is CMA is a Certified and/or Chartered Management Accountant, yet another designation, this one Canadian, though I think other Commonwealth countries have the equivalent or is it Japan that has CMAs too. Anyway I would say I see accounting designations requested a lot more than the CFA, but Toronto is the financial capital of Canada. If you want a safe job, accounting is probably the way to go, even after Enron went tits up they still need forensic accountants. :wink:

Big 4 accountant types have told me the CA is the one to do, but I know this one younger dude who is an acronym collector, he was concurrently doing CA and CFA, now he’s doing some business evaluater certification. He agrees CFA is the hardest.

I think networking and attitude play a role, as does health. In Vancouver and Toronto, two of the most multi-cultural cities in the world, this seems strange. In Vancouver it is advantageous to be a Chinese speaker.

#27

It’s one thing to say that CFA won’t help you break into a finance job. Or that it’s not all that important in investment banking. Or all that important in private equity. Or even overkill in some forms of wealth management, where many employers would prefer something like a CFP. Or a heavily quantitative job, where the CFA just isn’t mathematical enough. All of those are reasonable points of view.

It’s another thing to say “It’s a complete waste of time,” which implies that there is no value at all in learning anything in the curriculum. For any job. Under any condition. Ever. This is what your subject line says and what the drivel in your first post communicates to anyone with the patience to go through it.

Your subject line where you lost credibility with me, and with most of the posters on the forum.

Perhaps the CFA was completely useless to you, although you haven’t even gotten through Level 1 yet if I understood your post, so I’m not sure what you were expecting it to do, exactly. And what you are pursuing may not be the sort of thing that the CFA is useful for. In any case, it was never intended to be an entry-level credential, which seems to be what you are claiming it isn’t (welcome to the club of people who agree with you on that point).

The CFA is designed to help people who want to manage investment portfolios for individuals and institutions, and work with the techniques of valuation, portfolio construction, attribution, and some risk managment, along with a set of ethical and professional standards. If those things aren’t in your targeted job description now or at some point in the future, then don’t do it. (Though some of the principles are useful for personal portfolios, too).

But your complete ignorance about what are the sorts of things the CFA can help with, and your assumption that young people need to make sure they aren’t interested in it no matter who they are or what they want to do is just uninformed and batty.

And if you are having trouble in interviews, I would suggest trying to do some work on your personality. Do some anger management. Even here on this anonymous forum, pretty much everyone here can tell that you have a chip on your shoulder the size of Greenland + Spitzbergen. If anyone in an interview also perceived that, they would want to run from you as fast as they can, no matter how qualified you are or which letters you have after your name. People just ask you a question and you’re already assuming that they have the worst of intentions with the answer.

You need to chill out a bit, dude. The job market is tough for everyone these days, and no one needs more anger in their life, or their coworkers.

#28

This is the worst post ever.

I thought you are a very lucky guy to get 4 to 5 interviews in 1 year without even passing CFA level 1. Whether they recruit you or not, it has nothing to do with CFA.

Well, if your post title states “CFA complete waste of time”, then why the fuck are you still doing it?

If I were you, I would stop moaning and get the ass moving into why you failed your interviews?

#29

Why AF double post everything???

* Can AF add a function allowing the reply editor to delete the double post?

#30

Certified Management Accountant.

#31

You think you can go on a few job interviews straight out of undergrad and land a dream job during a deep structural recession for the finance industry? I interviewed 10-20x and sent out 75-100 resumes before I was able to get my foot in the door. You are complaining how the CFA hasn’t helped you, yet you haven’t even passed a single level. I just completed level 2, and I was smart enough to not put the designation on a pedastool nor viewed it as a guaranteed path to success. I’m taking the exams because I enjoy working in finance, the challenge of the CFA program, and I actually enjoy most of the currriculum. If finance makes you so upset, go work in another industry.

#32

To all respondents and more folks clicking on this thread I’ll do this once again, for the 20th time.

Please post CGA/CMA/CA jobs and then also post CFA jobs from the same city.

That was the one and only true intention of this post - to get the younger ones to realize they will waste a lot of their time.

I stand firmer than ever by my original stance: younger guys, do your research PROPERLY - don’t be in dreamland and think the CFA is going to take you anywhere. A CMA/CA will leave you with the same/better salary…

#33

I don’t get your point bleach. Jobs that require CMA/CGA/CA have nothing to do with jobs that require CFA. CMA/CGA/CA is for accountancy! What’s the point of comparing the number of jobs posting for each category?

#34

Hold on… you mean to say there are more accounting jobs out there compared to equity research and portfolio management jobs? No way. You mean to say that people judge you based on where you went to school, the color of your skin, and your age? No way. So what. Life isn’t fair.

For those of you who don’t know, Canda has 3 accounting designations. I have no idea why. CGA and CMA are basically for internal accountants and analysts, which have comparitively tons of jobs compared to ER/PM. CAs are the only ones who can perform audits, so you’ll generally find ex-big 4 people with this credential. It’s also the most difficult of the three to obtain.

The big difference is that accounting designations are viewed more as “required” credentials while the CFA is a value add in many positions, which is why you won’t see it in the job postings as much. It’s also more difficult to obtain because the exams are harder. People in the industry, they know the value of the charter (or lack their of) depending on the viewpoint.

Bleach, go get your CMA/CGA and begin your life as a cog in a wheel. Sorry I’m not sorry you probably failed the exam. The world doesn’t need a hot head forum venting person like you as a charterholder some day.

#35

Bleach, I’m sorry that you feel that way about the program. However, as you can see, there are a lot people (including me) that really disagree with you. That is fine, we are all entitled to our opinions. But what I really can’t understand where the bitterness comes from. If you really didn’t care I would think you would leave the program quietly.

However, despite all the bitterness about the CFA program, you still referred to yourself as Level 1 CFA candidate. This must mean that you have registered again to take the Level 1 exam in December. If not, you have misrepresented yourself and have violated the Code of Ethics. If you have registered again, I wish you well and hope you pass, but I am really confused as to why you would sign up at all. Based on where you are in the program you have ATLEAST 1000 hours of prep time to go plus 4 years of work experience. Why would you put yourself through this if you think it is not worth it? That makes no sense to me at all.

Finally, according to your profile you have been a member of AF for over 5 years. AF is primarily for people that are serious about the CFA, CAIA and/or FRM programs. I haven’t heard you mention CAIA or FRM, so I can only assume that you are not pursuing those either. So what are you looking to get out of AnalystForum exactly?

#36

Another cog in the wheel?

And you think your CFA will make you Warren Buffett, buddy? You will still remain another cog in the wheel like the rest of us.

Try getting laid off/fired from your CFA job and then good luck to you sir in finding another comparable job.

With a CGA/CMA/CA no matter what the economic conditions, jobs are always out there.

I simply want younger people to realize that as a CGA/CMA/CA you will be making equal or more than a CFA, yet you will have TONS of options with career choices and mobility.

#37

From the bottom of my heart I truly, genuinely feel sorry for folks chasing this FRM, CAIA nonsense.

COMPLETE, HOGWASH NONSENSE

Look at the world’s most successful people in finace, majority of them don’t even have a CFA let alone this FRM/CAIA joke.

Just terrible. Absolutely ridiculous with these pointless letters…just a way to advertise to the rest of the world that one does not have a life and studies all the time.

As for your comment regarding why I would continue to do the CFA, well, I stated earlier in another post on page 1 that I would be delighted to get into Business Development or an Analyst position in corporate finance.

#38

Oh, so it’s not just CFA, it’s FRM, CAIA and anything else that is complete hogwash.

You are sounding loonier and loonier by the minute.

You also need a logic course. The fact that there are more jobs that advertise CMA as a requirement is not proof that CMA is more useful than CFA or FRM or CAIA or anything, unless the goal is simply to get a job, *any* job (in Canada). And if the goal is to get *any* job, then there might be designations far more useful than CMA too.

BTW, you might have noticed that Warren Buffet doesn’t have a CMA either, so according to your arguments about the CFA, that demonstrates that the CMA is complete and utter hogwash, unworthy of the electrons lighting up this text.

Go get your CMA and apply for management accounting jobs all over (parts of) Canada. Most of us aren’t looking for those jobs anyway.

You’ll do better with the young by singing about how happy you are with your CMA than by barfing up barrels of bile about the CFA or anything else as you are doing right now.

#39

I’m not from Canada, so I didn’t know there were 3 accounting degrees.

But from my friends in accounting and finance in the US, I can definitely say it is FAR easier to get a job as an accountant or accounting role with a CPA (The US accounting degree) compared to trying to get a front office job with a CFA.

This should come as no surprise given all the rules and regulations the govt has created (sarbanes-oxley for example).

But when it comes to average salary/bonus, the vast majority of accounting roles pay is sh*t compared to the front office finance roles, and the accounting work makes you want to kill yourself. Over half my friends that have done accounting are trying desperately to transfer over to the finance side.

You are a L1 candidate, and looks like you have failed at least once already. If you been around the forum long enough, it’s quite clear that L1 means NOTHING. Tens of thousands of candidates have already passed it. As a L1 candidate, all that tells me is that you paid some money to register for a test, doesn’t mean you know anything.

So, it’s not surprising at all that hiring managers or anyone interviewing you will won’t give a damn about your CFA candidate status, because quite literally, you have accomplished NOTHING.

#40

could bleach be qqqbee 2.0?