Here is a link to a recent study done on the value added by the CFA charter (mostly focused on sell-side analysts though). The performance difference between charterholders and non charterholders is small, albeit statistically significant. Most of the value seems to be related to signalling… http://www.rotman.utoronto.ca/news/detail.asp?ID=473
utorcfa Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Here is a link to a recent study done on the value > added by the CFA charter (mostly focused on > sell-side analysts though). The performance > difference between charterholders and non > charterholders is small, albeit statistically > significant. Most of the value seems to be > related to signalling… > > http://www.rotman.utoronto.ca/news/detail.asp?ID=4 > 73 If you don’t want to be an outlier, why you study CFA program in the first place?
I used to do trading too, and I find it funny that whenever I tell my colleagues that I’m studying for the CFA, the reaction from those who already passed it is always that it’s totally useless. Those who don’t have it admire the effort, but it’s the ones who passed all 3 levels who dissed it the most. It makes me want to get the charter even more. Anyone experienced the same? I agree that it probably doesn’t help much in trading, but if it were me (Hope i passed!) I wouldn’t try to dissuade people from doing it. I admire the effort. It’s almost like that guy is trying to prevent me from getting it. Maybe that’s what he’s really trying to do. p.s. from what I heard FSA is a lot tougher. Like 10+ levels or something depending on the track?
jimmylndn Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > good point pimp - i think you should take it one > step further. why bother getting any university > degree in the first place. if you aren’t working > in the investment industry there is no chance ever > of getting in so just go flip burgers for a > living. the recession will be permanent and > getting any type of designation is pointless at > this point. > sound logic right? Good point. 300% agreed. With that there is no need to learn anything, No need to go to shool, no need to learn anything, go flip bugers, the world will sink next week. Play golf, eat fatty food.
utorcfa Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Here is a link to a recent study done on the value > added by the CFA charter (mostly focused on > sell-side analysts though). The performance > difference between charterholders and non > charterholders is small, albeit statistically > significant. Most of the value seems to be > related to signalling… > > http://www.rotman.utoronto.ca/news/detail.asp?ID=4 > 73 I agree that it’s all about signaling, especially for those of us without any real talent (myself included). We don’t have any inate ability so we have to window dress with letters after our names. I saw it in grad school and i think it’s the same story here. If you have investment decision making ability you don’t need the letters. And if you have true ability, the program is easy for you and you don’t value it as much. The rest of us put in ridiculous hours to struggle through this program in the hopes of signalling that we have ability. I’m all for everyone maximizing their knowledge, but i don’t expect this experience to put me on the leading edge of the ability curve. Hopefully I can continue to mislead potential employers, dazzle them with designations, speak the language, get hired only to disappoint, and maybe scratch out a decent living. Maybe it’s the weather…can we get some f^cking sun in the northeast?
pimp Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I fail to understand why people not in the > industry would want to do this. An experienced > CFA vs. a non-experienced person who happened to > pass 3 exams will usually get the job because of > the relevant experience. Moreover, given all the > turmoil in the industry, those hoping to break > into the industry should just give up. Ain’t > happening. If I tried to get some books on IT > stuff and try to get some IT certification hoping > to get that back office job, I highly doubt I’d be > more competitive than those already with > experience. If a IT job can double your salary, triple your bonus and get you a fancy car (and hot chicks too), you’d work your a$$ off to break into IT industry.
For what it’s worth, I’m involved in the hiring decisions at my office [sorry, we’re not a PM firm, so don’t ask for a job :)] and even participation in the CFA program bumps a candidate up to the top of the list.
My two cents having completed the program and worked in the industry for three years: The CFA helps when applying for jobs, but is utterly useless in an investment decision making position. I think it actually has negative value when you consider the opportunity cost of the time – i could have learned half a dozen industries (at least) inside and out in the time it took me to study interest rate swaps and butterfly spreads and other useless stuff that 99% of people never use in this industry. So it’s a nice to have the charter, but I suspect the frustration people are seeing / hearing has less to do with the knee jerk reaction that comes immediately after a disappointing exam, and more to do with the slow, sinking realization that you essentially just wasted a lot of time for a shot at an interview somewhere (if you are lucky). Personally, I never recommend the CFA program to anyone, and would discourage anyone who asked me from doing it. Just my opinion.
I think that its natural to feel angst over the CFA around exam time. Most candidates that I know give up vacation days to study for the exam. So in the short run, the candidate is making sacrifices while his/her friends are enjoying themselves or at least making money. Plus, given the financial meltdown, the short run gains in enhanced employment prospects from a CFA are less than they were in years past… Got to keep looking towards the long run my friends. You will have opportunities for full membership in CFA societies (a big point for me) and the knowledge gained. Plus, good opportunities for camaraderie talking with others about exam experiences.
I have an sales/advisory role in the SME segment. It involves: - derivatives - ips - financial statements - risk modeling - hedges - etc… 80% of CFA has some kind of relevance. The bad thing about CFA is the superficial way we learn things and the ambiguious multiple choice questions
Yeah- a CFA is very very very good to have, and you can call it window-dressing (I do too), but it’s more than that. you’re not goign to get treated by a guy who doesn’t have a medical degree or ask legal advice from a guy who doesn’t have a law degree no matter how much they can prove that they know a lot about the subject. Granted, a lot of people from Harvard with these degrees can be idiots, but it still doesn’t mean that it’s meaningless. It’s about time the financial industry had some sort of designation that, while not a license, allows people to assume a minimum understanding of the material.
As we get older, we all just start hating the opportunity cost of life. Plus, maybe call it wiser, or impatient, but many tend to become more cynical not just about the exam and its benefits, but the whole work thing + study thing + life thing. As time passes, it becomes more valuable (ie, closer to our ultimate expiration date), and therefore any moments where we have to mentally and physically leave this time also tends to have negative affects. That’s more on the philosophical approach. Mix that in the with this whole crazy exam experience, the stress and reaction of us, and to the people around (esp when they say stuff like ‘Oh, I’m sure you did well’), others who are even more crazier, people writing this exam when they really shouldn’t be. And at the end of the day, the payoff really isn’t that measurable (for the most part)
I think a lot of these people are crazy about the value of the charter. I am one of those people that has more corporate finance expierence and eventually plan to start my own wealth management firm. I have had numerous interviews about two years ago when I was changing jobs and the only reason people even brought me in was because of the CFA program. Where else would you learn that much about finance in a structured way. Of course a lot of it is not going to be relevant to your job. The CFA program teachs you the fundamentals about 100 different finance positions. Anyway, my expierence has been priceless and is one of the best decisions I have made. If you think its going to land you some highly flying job because you pasted some tests then you are wrong but from a knowledge standpoint I will always recommend the program
I’m neutral on the CFA, can see both sides of the argument actually. I guess I’m just a little demoralized after a full time MSF (with exemplary performance) and spending 3 years sitting for CFA exams I haven’t been able to get one real front office interview in either research or IB. I can’t break out of traditional corporate financial analysis. Yet I heard from an acquantaince who literally studied literature at Princeton and got a job in IB because he thought it would be interesting. Now that I think about it, I guess I have more of an issue with the industry’s selection criteria than the CFA itself.
Black Swan Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I’m neutral on the CFA, can see both sides of the > argument actually. I guess I’m just a little > demoralized after a full time MSF (with exemplary > performance) and spending 3 years sitting for CFA > exams I haven’t been able to get one real front > office interview in either research or IB. I > can’t break out of traditional corporate financial > analysis. Yet I heard from an acquantaince who > literally studied literature at Princeton and got > a job in IB because he thought it would be > interesting. Now that I think about it, I guess I > have more of an issue with the industry’s > selection criteria than the CFA itself. How right you are. For some people, walking into a high paying IB job is a cake walk because they are a particular pedigree, from a certain school, or play a particular sport. Sad, but very extremely true.