FrankArabia Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > bmw, i don’t think letting non college graduates > is a bad thing. it actually makes things more fair > for those that didn’t have the opp. to go to > university or college. if a non-college grad can > pass it, all power to them because they problably > deserve it a lot more then someone who went to > college. from the people i met in college, they > don’t stand a chance at the CFA so i don’t think > letting them take the test is a bad thing. keeping > people out for reasons outside of merit is just > unfair. > > CFAI should just make their exams harder point > blank. that’s the only way to fairly reduce the > number of charter holders while keeping the “gold > seal” reputation. raise the min. to 75% and watch > how many people take L1 and never come back. alot, i knew about fifteen people that studied for level one in december 06 all except for one failed, including myself, and only two (including myself) came back and passed it in june. alot of people just arent willing to make the commitment, while there may be alot of candidates still only 1 and 5 actually make it through the program. alot of the bo guys you work with will probably give up.
SeanC, are you serious? Only 2 in 15 passed. Wow…that’s pathetic…but I guess it makes me feel better about myself in a “king of the mongoloids” sort of way. Good luck on L3.
The CFA will NEVER become common. Why? There is only a certain amount of people who a) are willing to put in the time necessary to pass the three levels and b) have the brains to do it c) will be in a position to qualify for it There will always be lazy people, people who don’t care, people who don’t have the patience for it and people who are not smart enough. That’s my .02
drs Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The CFA will NEVER become common. Why? > > There is only a certain amount of people who a) > are willing to put in the time necessary to pass > the three levels and b) have the brains to do it > c) will be in a position to qualify for it > > There will always be lazy people, people who don’t > care, people who don’t have the patience for it > and people who are not smart enough. That’s my > .02 ya know i kind of agree with this; however at the same time, if there is a high demand for this charter, people will keep taking it.
drs Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The CFA will NEVER become common. Why? > > There is only a certain amount of people who a) > are willing to put in the time necessary to pass > the three levels and b) have the brains to do it > c) will be in a position to qualify for it > > There will always be lazy people, people who don’t > care, people who don’t have the patience for it > and people who are not smart enough. That’s my > .02 You may be overlooking one factor which could lead to the CFA being perceived as common. What if the ratio of CFA-related jobs to CFA charterholders decreases (this could be the cause of demographics, consolidation, etc)…in this case, it would be safe to assume (ceteris paribus) that the HRs of the IM firms would interview primarily CFAs considering the large supply of “eligible” candidates.
bmwhype Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > well what did u guys expect after CFAI allowed non > college graduates to take level 1? Very, very short-sighted of you to say, my friend. You certainly need to get out more.
welcome to Toronto land of 6800 CFA Charterholders and not enough front office jobs to go around. I think we’ve long since passed saturation point in this city. But in the US not that many people are doing it and it will take some time before it becomes like Toronto but it will happen.
i don’t think it’ll happen in the US. the reason is that the US has other measures to distinguish the good from the bad. In Canada, there isn’t a single program or school that you can graduate from that will immediately set you apart (graduating from Richard Ivey is a pretty decent accomplishment but many people prefer to actually get education outside of business). graduating from U of T in Canada is nothing close to graduating from Harvard in the US. In addition to this, we have way more university graduates per capita as compared to the US. We Canucks use the CFA as a means to distinguish ourselves (and of course to learn) primarily because our universities can’t speak for themselves or does not hold enough clout. This is also in conjunction with a small supply of jobs. What is the most prestigious universitiy in Canada? you can name 3 easily and they’re all in Ontario (sorry McGill grads).
I think that it could happen in the U.S. for the simple fact that money management firms nearing or surpassing $1 billion AUM has become more common. Remember when Peter Lynch passing the $1 B mark met a lot of skepticism? That was only a couple decades ago. Unfortunately, a growth from $250 AUM to $1B does not mean 4 times the opportunity for CFAs. It’s pretty much the same people who started up companies in the 90s who are managing the excess liquidity of the 21st century. Furthermore, investments and finance have not been a major part of the people’s lives until fairly recently. But with an aging population that can’t rely on their pensions or on Medicare, or even on their wages, you have to think that more and more dinner table conversations will end up on stocks. You might say that’s already starting, judging by Cramer’s penetration of college audiences, and of the success of Kiyosaki, Orman, et. al. So I see a lot more faces in the next few generations who will be thinking about finance, who will be thinking of CFA, and who will be dreaming of allocating a shrinking pool of available capital.
As far as I know, in my entire firm of about 500 people (pure finance/capital markets/municipals), NOT ONE person had the CFA charter, and I was the only person I knew of who was working toward the CFA charter. When I passed LI in June, I think my boss felt a little shamed because he had failed L1 and had given up. There aren’t more than a dozen publicly recruited jobs in my entire area of 8 million people that REQUIRE the CFA charter. The CFA charter in the U.S. is a LOOOOOONG way from becoming commonplace.
FrankArabia Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > i don’t think it’ll happen in the US. the reason > is that the US has other measures to distinguish > the good from the bad. In Canada, there isn’t a > single program or school that you can graduate > from that will immediately set you apart > (graduating from Richard Ivey is a pretty decent > accomplishment but many people prefer to actually > get education outside of business). > > graduating from U of T in Canada is nothing close > to graduating from Harvard in the US. In addition > to this, we have way more university graduates per > capita as compared to the US. > > We Canucks use the CFA as a means to distinguish > ourselves (and of course to learn) primarily > because our universities can’t speak for > themselves or does not hold enough clout. This is > also in conjunction with a small supply of jobs. > > What is the most prestigious universitiy in > Canada? you can name 3 easily and they’re all in > Ontario (sorry McGill grads). I don’t think an MBA holds as much value in Canada as it does in the USA as well. Plus the US graduates 100,000 MBA’s a year and Canada does about 4,000 a year. I think employers really value a CA here but in the US a CPA is sh!t (atleast for Finance)
Regardless of whether the charter becomes widespread - IMO quite unlikely - that´s the point of CFAI after all: pulling the threads of Finance professionals worldwide by setting a technical skills standard, which is fine to skim the cream and differentiate decent professionals. What has to be noticed is that a LI candidate has nothing to do with an actual CFA charterholder. Finally, even in case the no. of charterholders skyrockets in the coming years, this fact will be probably due to the zillion of Asians who are taking the charter. I´m sure they´ll be doing more than fine in their native countries and they won´t ever have that many FO opportunities out of their area. i.e. have you ever seen a French AM picking some stocks to a non-French speaker?!
kkent, what firm do you work for man? even at my low end job (Discount Brokerage), there are 5 charterholders over here (1 actually works in BO but i consider him my comrade). I know you’re not working at an entry level role so there is something wrong here. every single job that i have come across (junior positions) require the CFA (junior analyst, assistant PM, associate PM, associate to the assistant to the associate PM to the junior PM). from what I can see, everybody and their moms are getting the CFA just for the hell of it. i feel the CA is very valuable here too. definitely easier to get a job with a CA then a CFA from what I can see.
Frank, it’s not like that at all in the U.S. (at least outside of NY). I was working at an entry role, but I didn’t know of a single person in my entire firm who had the CFA charter–as far as I knew, no one was even sitting for the exams, although everyone knew about it and I was given a lot of praise for passing L1. But I don’t see ANYTHING in my area requiring the CFA. However, there are many roles that require “progress toward” or “the desire to pursue” the CFA designation.
that is completely different here. there are so many people taking the CFA here its ridiculous. a lot of people i think fail but they keep trying, but all of the young people, i would say 50% at least are giong for the CFA or already completed at least 1 level. i would estimate that there are 30 people are diong it this December judging by the amount of people i see with CFA books on their desk. There are 200 IRs here on hte phones in total.
shawnyv Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > drs Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > The CFA will NEVER become common. Why? > > > > There is only a certain amount of people who > a) > > are willing to put in the time necessary to > pass > > the three levels and b) have the brains to do it > > > c) will be in a position to qualify for it > > > > There will always be lazy people, people who > don’t > > care, people who don’t have the patience for it > > and people who are not smart enough. That’s > my > > .02 > > > ya know i kind of agree with this; however at the > same time, if there is a high demand for this > charter, people will keep taking it. that just means CFAI is going to make alot of money
nyfinance Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I think that it could happen in the U.S. for the > simple fact that money management firms nearing or > surpassing $1 billion AUM has become more common. > Remember when Peter Lynch passing the $1 B mark > met a lot of skepticism? That was only a couple > decades ago. > > Unfortunately, a growth from $250 AUM to $1B does > not mean 4 times the opportunity for CFAs. It’s > pretty much the same people who started up > companies in the 90s who are managing the excess > liquidity of the 21st century. > > Furthermore, investments and finance have not been > a major part of the people’s lives until fairly > recently. But with an aging population that can’t > rely on their pensions or on Medicare, or even on > their wages, you have to think that more and more > dinner table conversations will end up on stocks. > You might say that’s already starting, judging by > Cramer’s penetration of college audiences, and of > the success of Kiyosaki, Orman, et. al. > > So I see a lot more faces in the next few > generations who will be thinking about finance, > who will be thinking of CFA, and who will be > dreaming of allocating a shrinking pool of > available capital. well capital pools are increasing exponentially, just not in north america. we also need to think of the demographic trends, alot of the PMs who manage money now will retire in 10-15 years. Look at how the big four are scrambling for grads, not just because of SOX but because all the accountants are retiring and they need people that can replace them.
cfa_toronto_on Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > FrankArabia Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > i don’t think it’ll happen in the US. the > reason > > is that the US has other measures to > distinguish > > the good from the bad. In Canada, there isn’t a > > single program or school that you can graduate > > from that will immediately set you apart > > (graduating from Richard Ivey is a pretty > decent > > accomplishment but many people prefer to > actually > > get education outside of business). > > > > graduating from U of T in Canada is nothing > close > > to graduating from Harvard in the US. In > addition > > to this, we have way more university graduates > per > > capita as compared to the US. > > > > We Canucks use the CFA as a means to > distinguish > > ourselves (and of course to learn) primarily > > because our universities can’t speak for > > themselves or does not hold enough clout. This > is > > also in conjunction with a small supply of jobs. > > > > > What is the most prestigious universitiy in > > Canada? you can name 3 easily and they’re all > in > > Ontario (sorry McGill grads). > > > I don’t think an MBA holds as much value in Canada > as it does in the USA as well. Plus the US > graduates 100,000 MBA’s a year and Canada does > about 4,000 a year. I think employers really value > a CA here but in the US a CPA is sh!t (atleast for > Finance) man, the CA is unbeleivably well regarded in canada, im tlaking to guys that just qualified and are having headhunters make them offers. which is why im ursuing a CA designation in conjunction with a CFA, ill just work in corp finance at a big four.
FrankArabia Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > kkent, what firm do you work for man? even at my > low end job (Discount Brokerage), there are 5 > charterholders over here (1 actually works in BO > but i consider him my comrade). > > I know you’re not working at an entry level role > so there is something wrong here. every single job > that i have come across (junior positions) require > the CFA (junior analyst, assistant PM, associate > PM, associate to the assistant to the associate PM > to the junior PM). from what I can see, everybody > and their moms are getting the CFA just for the > hell of it. > > i feel the CA is very valuable here too. > definitely easier to get a job with a CA then a > CFA from what I can see. i live in vancouver which is a smaller city with alot more talent seeking alot less ops and i never see CFA required for entry level jobs, only “interest or enrollment in the CFA program is a plus”
SeanC, how is the market for Charterholders in Vancouver as compared to Seattle. I remember a few years ago lots of ppl were leaving Van. to go the US. Is that still the case?