Corporations aren’t citizens, but they sure can vote with their donations… Interesting that corporations don’t have a “path to citizenship” but it is possible that citizenship does require a “physical person” as opposed to a “juridical person”. Also Greenman, your comments about Pi and 2/3 of “other persons” is not an argument against the law as it is, but against the law vs what it should be. Currently, corporations are treated as people under the law, which leads to all sorts of strange behaviors designed to shift liability and taxation and profit sharing - whether for good or ill. However, if a corporation weren’t a person, you would not be able to sue a corporation, you would only be able to sue the owners individually. That’s one of the reasons for the LLC/P structure.
Don’t you think it’s a little silly to engage in a conversation around a written piece without reading the piece? And then presenting fairly absurd logical premises to mock it? Some of your questions may be answered by taking the time to actually read it. 1Recho, I think the above is actually representative of our political process. I hope to be able to get your point of view, though 
Sorry, I didn’t understand that. What is “the above” you are referring to?
Admittedly, I probably went a little overboard. No, I haven’t seen it, although I have a Chomsky/Zinn/Hitchens loving friend who told me long ago that I should watch it. And I intended to, just never got around to it. (I think we’re talking about the documentary “The Corporation”) I’m just really tired of people (both on the left and the right and the middle) saying, “Corporations are rich. Corporations are greedy. Corporations are people, too.” No, they’re not. Ken Lay was the CEO of a corporation, and he was rich and greedy. HIs BoD were probably rich and greedy. His auditors were corrupt, and Andy Fastow and Jeff Skilling were fraudulent thieves and liars. But these are all real persons. Enron Inc. is an inanimate object. It is no more capable of becoming “rich” or “evil” or “greedy” than my coffee mug. And @1RH, I think he meant that most Congressmen push through bills without even reading them, like I felt inclined to comment on something I knew nothing about. @Bchad - I know that corporations get to dole out campaign funds out of their shareholder’s dime. (Personally, I think that’s irresponsibility on the corporation’s part. Corporations should not donate to political campaigns, nor should they donate to charity. That’s not their money–it’s the shareholders’ money. They should pay it as a dividend and let the shareholders decide how to donate their money. But I digress…) But to those who believe that corporations are people, it’s odd that corporations should pay taxes, yet have zero vote in the very government that they finance.
Non-citizens don’t get to vote, but they do pay taxes if they are here legally. Corporations benefit from legal protections that are enforced by the courts that taxes fund. You are saying that they should get them for free because they don’t vote? I’m not actively arguing for these points; just pointing out that there are lots of ways to cut it.
I’m so tired of this “Corporations are not people argument.” Of course they’re not people! It’s a legal definition that allows a business to conduct transactions, be sued, and protects shareholders. Perhaps certain things need to be looked at under what rights a Corp has, but a corporation is NOT or never was a person, citizen nor a non-citizen. Corporate personhood is the legal concept that a corporation may be recognized as an individual in the eyes of the law. This doctrine forms the basis for legal recognition that corporations, as groups of people, may hold and exercise certain rights under the common law and the U.S. Constitution. For example, corporations may contract with other parties and sue or be sued in court in the same way as natural persons or unincorporated associations of persons. The doctrine does not hold that corporations are flesh and blood “people” apart from their shareholders, officers, and directors, nor does it grant to corporations all of the rights of citizens.
^exactly MMP: Chomsky behaves nothing like a smart person
^I’m not sure if CFABB and I are in agreement or disagreement.
I fully admit that corporations are legal entities, and that they have the right to sue/be sued, etc. They are an important staple in American business and serve an invaluable function.
But to hear people say that they are “greedy”, or “evil”, or “enriched”, or try to project any other human characteristic onto an inanimate object, I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.
Sitting in a box behind me is a whole bunch of stuff that I’m working on for a guy’s estate. It has three corporate charters, five partnership agreements, and a couple of certificates of formation for an LLC. And I’m not particularly worried about the box becoming “evil” or “greedy”. Or any of the papers in the box, for that matter.
@Bchad - corporations do not enjoy any protection under the law. The individuals that underly the corporation enjoy the protection of the corporate shield. And they corporation doesn’t pay for anything. The employees pay for it, in the form of lower wages. The owners pay for it, in the form of lower dividends or capital appreciation. The customers pay for it, in the form of higher prices. But again, these are all people who are paying for it–not the corporation.
Let me ask you this–if I hack into your bank account and reappropriate $10,000 to my bank account, would you say, “Oh well, Greenman’s bank account has been enriched at the expense of my own, because Greenman’s bank account is evil and greedy”? Or would you say, “Greenman stole money from me”?
That’s silly. I am alse not afraid of Anderson Silva’s birth certificate, but put me in the ring with him in a fight to the first broken bone and I become very afraid. Similarly, I am not afraid of corporate incorporation documents, but if the corporation hires some lawyers to sue me for illegally downloading intellectual property I become much more afraid.
^But that’s my point. A company can sue you, whether it’s a sole prop, a partnership, a corporation, or any other form of business. The fact that it’s a “corporation” has nothing to do with it.
Whether you steal from Greeman (the person), or from Greenman Inc. is irrelevant. The fact is–you’re still stealing from me, and I’m still going to sue you. The only difference is whose name is on the docket.
And I’m still paying for court fees/lawyers etc. Whether it comes out of Greenman’s pocket or Greenman Inc.'s pocket is irrelevant.