One thing that escapes me. LIving in California, how do schools like Pepperdine, Chapman and even USC survive? Clearly hacksaw, and the UC system is so good. And if you don’t get into a UC, then the Cal State system is on par academically to these private schools, but at one-sixth the cost. If my kids wanted to go to a private hacksaw school, we would have a serious conversation, starting with, “You are out of your GD mind.”
Who pays for a private hacksaw school at 6x the cost of a public university of equal quality?
I think you might be the only person who understood my point in this thread. I look at a Pepperdine resume and think, “This person ain’t too bright, they obviously were mainly concerned with overpaying. I’d rather look at this UC Davis resume, because the person coming out is likely equally qualified, but less indebted (and so lower expectations) and more humble.” Pepperdine = mother of hacksaw. Not because Pepperdine is a bad school (it’s a fine school), not because it’s not as good as Harvard (even though it’s not) but because it’s absurdly overpriced for what it is.
Snobs. People who have a lot of money and want their kids to be around other people with a lot of money. (You don’t want to slum it with the kids in the…gasp…public universities, do you?
My wife graduated from Abilene Christian University, which is a pricey religious school in Texas. (John Bradshaw Layfield went there, just so ya know.) All of her friends were well-to-do rich kids who went to private schools in the big city.
In contrast, if you go to Texas Tech (for example), you’ll see a lot of working-class kids. (And nobody wants to run the risk of their precious little daughter marrying down.)
Eh there are still lots of hot chicks that come out of schools like Tech, UT, A&M. Truthfully where a girl went to school wouldn’t matter too much. All else equal I’d rather a student debt free girl from A&M than a girl that borrowed a lot for a degree from SMU.
I’m not a parent, but I had good grades and participation in high school. My parents told me if I wanted to go to NYU I had to pay it all, but if I went to SUNY they’d pay it all. I went to Buffalo.
What’s the level of private schools in US? I went to private int’l school as well as public school in Japan, and public school in US, and I learnt the most in Japan public schools. Public US school was pretty much a joke. The int’l school wasn’t very difficult but I think it has plenty of prestige.
Are parents paying the premium for private schools in US for the prestige, just to prevent children from attending public school with hoi polloi, or is there a real difference in level of education?
@Emichan - From what I can tell, most private schools do offer a better education. They actually make you think and reason, rather than just teaching to a state-mandated test. That prepares you for college better. Every person I’ve ever talked to who has experience with both public and private schools say that the level of academic rigor is greater in private schools.
More importantly, though, is you don’t have all the riff-raff that you have in public schools. In public school, a kid can practically get a way with murder before they kick him out. My wife teaches 4th grade and I am absolutely shocked by the behavior of some of these kids. They throw staplers at her, they scream obscenities in the middle of the classroom, they fall down and yell and kick when told to do something, and there’s not a single thing she can do about it. She can’t even send them to the principal’s office, because the principal doesn’t want to deal with them. One boy even told another girl that he was going to rape her and kill her (in 4th grade). I think that actually warranted a firm slap on the wrist from the principal. (Any kid tells my daughter that, I’d want his head on a stick.)
In a private school, you don’t have to deal with this kind of crap. In the higher socioeconomic strata that most of these kids are in, they’re just not going to behave that way. So the kids do get to learn in a better environment. Being richer, the entitlement attitude is there instead. So it’s a different kind of problem, but one better suited for “rich” people.
Yeah, why wouldn’t you put that on your resume? That’s awesome. I paid 100% of my college costs and I put that on my resume, and it came up repeatedly as a positive in interviews.
Greenman is right. In private school, they don’t tolerate BS. So the quality is better, but the lack of distraction in and of itself makes it even better still. If some kid is disruptive or can’t get with the program, he gets kicked out. You have peace and quiet with better teacher ratios and a better peer set, so teachers can teach to the highest level instead of teaching for the lowest common denominator. I went to public school and I’m pretty sure at least 1/3rd of my class was retarded, and at times, extremely disruptive. It was half school, half daycare, all the way through 12th grade. Out of my class of 350, we had one go to Penn, one Dartmouth, and one Stanford. At a good private school, it would be multiples of that. I went to Hacksaw U and still outperformed all 3 of those kids over time, but that’s a different story.
My kids go to a public HS that is seen as sketchy to outsiders. But it is a tale of two schools. One set of kids enroll in AP and honors classes, the other set are in CP (college prep - a minnomer if there ever was one.) My kids recognize (and ignore) the nonsense in the hallways and get to the better classes with the dedicated kids. We are very happy with the school. And I spent 12 years in private schools growing up. I am glad I didn’t spend the money.
Here in Philly, you can either pay 20-30k a year and send your kids to a very good private school, or you can live in the correct area for them to go to a really good public school.
Obviously it will depend how my kid(s) are adjusted), but I tend to lean towards public because it requires the kid to have self discipline to succeed. I know plenty of people who did well in a hand holding private school and then completely lost focus when they got to the freedom of college.
@greenie, my mom teaches public 8th grade and she says that it is a complete nightmare compared to when she started (albeit in Catholic school). Every year there are kids in her classes with ankle monitors for real crimes, like rape, assault, grand theft, etc. The way it works, she teachs all the smart "gifted) kids but also all of the “special ed” kids (in different periods), which these days is a lot of really violent individuals as well as kids with serious emotional/learning issues. As you can imagine, learning is basically nonexistent in the latter class. Thankfully, the really bad kids literally have guards with them the entire day so they can be restrained.
Ultimately, I think that the most important factor is parent involvement.
As you move up in grade levels, you can naturally gravitate towards AP classes and other “smart” stuff, if you go to a big enough school. (There were less than 200 in my whole high school, and only 39 in my graduating class, so we didn’t have AP or Calculus or Photography or anything. We had the basics, Home Ec, and Ag.) While all the troubled kids are taking Pre-Algebra for Total Idiots, you can take Trigonometry and Calculus, which helps insulate you from all the riff-raff while getting you ready for college work.
At the elementary, it’s not so easy, since (at least in Texas) you can’t divide kids into a “smart” class and a “dumb” class. But again–it’s elementary level. Sure, some kids might pick it up quicker than others, but at a private school, they teach you how to do long divison the same way they teach in public school. So is the education really that much better?
Seeing all those tuition #'s makes me happy I went to school in Canada. The public education system here for the most part is pretty decent, though I do believe private would do a slightly better job. My GF is a teacher and she gives me the low down on what schools are good.
Another key point to mention is that many US based companies (Tech, Consulting, iBanking, AM etc.) hire fairly extensively in Southern Ontario. This always surprised me, I assumed there would be enough talent (and no doubt there is) in the US that coming to Canada to interview and going through the trouble of getting these kids work visas wouldnt be worth their time. But yet, they always come back. Maybe I just don’t give Canadian schools enough credit…
While we are discussing the merits of private schools, and there are many, how about the negatives? Coming from a middle class working family, I’m not sure how I would feel about my kids (though I have none yet) constantly being around people from an elite socio-economic background. To a certain degree that must skew your perception of reality and what is normal. Moreover, in my experience , ALL the heavy cocaine users I know are spoiled private school brats. Also can’t many of the private school benefits be replicated by cheaper alternatives (private tutors, piano lessons, specialized camps etc.)? just my 2 cents.
Only thing thats pretty clear in this thread is the massive chip Greenie has on his shoulder. I agree with most of his points but no need to keep piping you came out fine regardless of the adversity. That’s just a function of your personal qualities.
Parents said they’d pay for my university in full from the get go but didn’t actually do so. They picked up a few bills and that was much appreciated. What are you going to do? Just take it on the chin and keep moving. They did their best and I’ll do the same for the future kids. If my kids are talented and know what they want, I’ll work longer days if it helps them go to school here or abroad, wherever their best opportunities are.
I do wish I went to better schools (public/private) and was surrounded by more competitive and smarter kids in university. Getting used to being a high functioning individual consistently takes time and shared experience. Not a lesson you want to learn in the later stages of life. I will definitely be passing that one along.
Also, school in the states is ridiculously expensive, but the more you think about it, you are really paying for network, brand, good quality competitiors and maybe good professors at the undergraduate level. The environment has to have a positive effect on the kid.