Okay, look, here’s the deal. It’s pretty obvious you used a bunch of words without knowing how those things would be used to actually protect yourself in avy terrain. It’s also pretty obvious you don’t really know what you’re talking about w/r/t avy safety. So it’s pointless debating it here. Unless you just want to impress AF. Copy and paste what you just wrote onto summitpost, cascade climbers or teton gravity forums and see how the good folks there respond (guides, rescue techs, etc).
Yeah, I get that those guys have massive egos about their knowledge of snow crystals and their professional jargon. Im not at their level and they are free to laugh at me and my inferior knowledge. It’s like they are level 3 and I’m level 1. I get that. Ya brah. Brah, if you knew what I knew, Brah. Still, I don’t get why the same “Brah” guys repeatedly take their teams down mountains and get their groups in slides if they have the ability to understand this shit with perfect foresight. Or maybe they do just take a calculated risk? No? You don’t think they do? reminds me of someone saying that because they have a cfa charter that they can get superior return. Btw, the Indian army guys who died were asleep at their base when the avalanche came throuh and buried them. Shit does happen.
Soldiers should camp outside of slide zones. Duh.
And yes, they’re taking calculated risks. But that doesn’t mean it’s luck either. If I play russian roulette then it’s not luck that killed me. It was the decision to play russian roulette. I would say being trained is the difference between playing roulette with 5 or 6 bullettes and six chambers vs playing it with a hundreds of chambers and only 1 bullet
this wasnt camp dude, it was their base.
Poor planning then, don’t build your house below sea level near the beach and don’t build a military base in a slide runoff zone.
Good, I agree with what you just said. Although maybe not 100 chambers to 6. Maybe 12 to 6, which is still a big improvement and not to be scoffed at.
^ There are no parallels between what those guys do and how you approached it without gear or background. Also, the vast majority of serious backcountry skiers have never been in a slide. They don’t “repeatedly” get their groups in slides. Because frankly, they know enough to avoid them. Your view is just way off and your admission of not really knowing what you’re doing, as well as lack of general precaution and then whatever the hell that rant above was, is just weak. And if you were to tell these guys you thought a 6% chance of getting in a slab slide was okay to you they’d tell you you were an idiot. Most backcountry guys log a couple hundred runs a year. It’s pretty rare to hear about anyone surviving a single slab avalanche, much less multiple ones over time. If you’re solo or without gear that survivability would be zero.
I think what you’re referring to as “repeatedly” getting in avalanches may be the little sluff slides they trigger. Those are non-lethal and in most cases purposely triggered for cinematic effect. They know this after rutche block’s or whatever tests they happen to be using. What you don’t ever see or hear about are these guys repeatedly triggering slabs like it’s just no big deal. To most outsiders this very important difference isn’t clear.
I heard that fingering Kim Kardashian can generate the same devastating results.
Hard to say as their fingers are already black.
do fingers in that condition recover eventually or do they just fall off or something?
I never understood why people don’t just wear gloves.
^ hehe…gloves in massively sub-zero temperatures have their limitations too…
Black Swan taking out the trash… LMAO
Tikka, tell us the one where you met the 18 yr old Swedish model at the top of Everest and you guys did lines for hours and then you had a threesome with her twin sister…
^ I’m with Blake. Tikka, your posts on AF are becoming less and less believeable. You say climbing Everest in less than 9 months and basically didn’t do any real research, and then a few posts later say “oh well I may not be able to”. So, basically, you thought it would be cool to sound awesome on AF by saying a bunch of stuff that either just popped into your mind or you just flat out made up.
The problem with bullsh*t is that eventually someone will know something and call you out on it. No one knows who anyone is, except for the few that have met on here before in person, but we’re all still strangers. So, why even bother? Are you sad and alone somewhere and need people to go “oh wow, you are so cool” on an anonymous forum?
Iterscom, read the above post. I said I plan on going to base camp, learning the ropes and going up to camp 3. I didn’t say that I’m climbing to the top of everest in 9 months. I have no idea if I will be able to handle to altitude. It is theoretically possible that I could decide to do it if the expedition leader I’m considering recommends it. But very unlikely that I would. Read what I wrote, Iteracom before you give me shit like that.
Obviously there is a huge difference between base camp to Camp 3, and then from Camp 3 to summit, but I’m all for people being aspirational (as long as it’s not in a reckless way). Your Kilimanjaro trek sounds pretty reasonable and can basically be done with as long as you’re in good physical condition. Most importantly, have a great time and don’t do anything too crazy…you have a pretty ambitious schedule so I’m guessing you must be in pretty decent shape already.
Sorry, when I said 12:6 I meant that these guys can improve your odds of survival by that much In the event of a slab ( which is “not to be scoffed at,” as in impressive that they can improve your odds that much. This was unclear on my part) I did not mean a 6 percent or 12 percent chance of getting caught in a slab. Those odds are terrible, I wouldn’t take them and don’t know any sane person who would on any given day. I wouldn’t make an attempt on everest if I thought I had greater than a 1-2 percent chance of death. I certainly wouldnt go back country skiing on a given day with 6 percent chance of dying, when I did it all damn winter season long through high school and college. Been doing it since I was 12 in VT. I’d be dead by now if I did that. I’m not an expert on avalanches but I’m not completely ignorant either, Black Swan. As i said, I’ve been backcountry skiing since I was 12 and skiing Kashmir for 5 years which is longer than all of the foreign guides there. Trust me that avalanche in Kashmir definitely scared the shit out of me. I felt lucky and foolish. I said it could have been me very easily, and since my skiing partner wasn’t there yet, I would have been SOL. They might have found my bones if the animals didn’t get their first. This year I’ll be bringing an ABS system with me as well. BS, Do you think that I am arguing that you shouldn’t take precautions, guides, transponders, or knowledge? Im not. I usually take a guide and a transponder with me in Kashmir, even though I know the mountain well. I didn’t on that particular day because I arrived later in the day. The only point I wanted to make is that Expert guides die in avalanches all of the time, and it is not for a lack of knowledge or precaution. This is the only argument that I’m trying to make here. Even if my partner had been there, even if we take every precaution, we both could have been taken out and transponders, that we usually use, would have been useless. Are you really making an argument that this doesn’t happen? It does! The Swiss guide of the wall street bankers made the same decision that I did and got his team in an avalanche. What separated us was luck in timing. I descended earlier. About 15 people got caught up in it and it is a miracle that no one died. On the south side of everest, just above base camp, you have to climb over a thing called the Khumbu icefall. It is actually the deadliest place on the mountain for Sherpas in an absolute sense because of falling ice and snow. Anytime you go over it you are taking a chance. Expedition leaders know, whenever they send their teams over it, there is a chance that a real bad slide could come and wipe out everybody. That’s the kind of “Black Swan” event that I am referring to when I said I don’t worry too much about avalanches. It’s shit luck if it happens. If I get on the expedition to camp 3 I’ll make sure take a photo for the AF crew with something funny on it. “Free QqqBee!” or something like that. In the mean time, I’m still unsure If I can climb kilimanjaro because of altitude, so the road to the top of everest is far away and uncertain.
Thats insane. But I support it 100%, if you achieve it would probably put you in the top five of most badass charterholders.
Let’s get back to mountaineering. as I said, the big issue I’m concerned with is altitude. I do not want to spent 60k on an everest expedition until I am certain that I have a reasonable chance at acclimatising. Here is my plan to see if I have what it takes in a case anybody wants to give me shit: 1) Kili Christmas/New Years. 6kms up of non technical hiking. This will be a full 1k higher than I’ve been. It should be relatively easy. That said, people do get sick and die there from the altitude. If I have problems then I’ll halt my ambitions there. I’ve hiked long trail solo (270 miles) carrying all my equipment. Here at will have porters and it’s only about 30-50 miles total. The only difference is the altitude. Which if you haven’t figured out by now, I am very concerned with. 2) January I’ll run the marathon. I’ll also do a trip or two up to Kashmir 3) Late March I will head to Nepal. What I need to find out from this trip is whether or not I can acclimatise to >7km and to also learn the specific technical skills for that type of expedition. I plan on doing something like Island Peak, Labouche or Lhakpa Ri which is 7km. Another option is to climb to camp 3 of everest. The way that people train for everest is to practice doing dry runs up and down from Base Camp to 1, 2, and 3 on successive trips timing yourself. This gives the best indicator of whether or not you can acclimatise fast enough and whether you will be abe to summit and return fast enough. Some expeditions will let you join on the spot if you perform well enough on these. I believe this is because permits are purchased as teams and people drop out due to illness or just not being able to hack it. Slots can open up. So yes, theoretically I could summit then. Unlikely. The goal of that trip will be to decide if I am capable or even want to try for an 8k meter peak. I do expect it to be somewhat brutal just doing camp 3 and spending 40-50 days at base camp. 4) late summer early fall I can join an expedition in someone like Cho Oyu and Manaslu, which are almost as tall as everest but comparatively safer and easier to be rescued from if you can’t handle the altitude. If I can climb that I’ll be ready for Everest the following spring.