Financial planner - hourly or retainer?

^ well this is part of my point. Most all investors are used to receiving the financial planning advice, bundled so to speak with the investment advice. This is how they are used to receiving, and paying for advice.

So what are the issues:

  • Some people are paying for advice they are not currently getting

  • The advice they are getting may be incomplete, or bad advice

  • The license requirements in order to become an advisor are (IMO) pretty low.

  • There are so many different types of business models advisors use, its difficult for your average retailer to be able to compare between firms

I mean, I could go on and on.

I’ve tried using a fee for service model on some prospects, in addition to the fee only to manage the investments. It did not work out. (Why? Increase revenues. Get paid for the preparing the plan as a planner. Get paid for managing the investments, as an investment advisor).

Yeah

DoW asked how I was doing, so I thought I’d reply here.

(Here’s the back story that most of you know. But a refresher for those who forgot and care.)
In December, I finally got the gumption to quit my job and start my own gig. I am now 100% self-employed. I have a securities license, so I do the prototypical “financial advisor”-stuff. I also have a tax practice, so I do a lot of tax returns. (More than I want, to be honest.)

Pricing investment management is pretty easy–whatever commission the product gives you, or X% of AUM. (In my case, 1.5% for the first million, 1% for everything over $1m.) Pricing tax returns is a little more difficult, but it’s mainly time-based. So however many hours you spent on it multiplied by an hourly rate (in my case, $175).

What is significantly harder is how to market and price all the other stuff, although I have found some things that work. Take Terry, for instance. Terry is a 62 year-old self employed geologist that I go to church with. Terry is a tax client, and has known for years that I have an investment license. Yet, he still continues to do business with somebody from Raymond James, because that guy is a Dave Ramsey Endorsed Local Provider. (Which is nothing more than a marketing gimmick. You pay $750 per month, promise not to sell only proprietary products, and promise to agree with anything Dave Ramsey says. It’s a pretty low bar.)

This tax season, Terry comes in and asks questions about his investment accounts. (What is the tax treatment of this? How does that work? How much tax will I pay if I do this other thing, etc.) I answered all his questions honestly, fairly, and (I think) competently. Then I turned the tables on him. “Terry, you have an investment advisor that you pay a LOT of money to. Why didn’t you ask him all of this stuff?”

His reply was exactly what I thought it would be. “Ummm…well…I…uh…hmmm…I don’t know. You seem like you understand it better than he does.” To which I replied, “If I’m going to answer all the hard questions and do all the hard work, I’d appreciate it if you let me manage the investments instead of him.” And much to my surprise, he didn’t even object. He said, “Okay. What do we need to do to get started?”

This has happened a couple of times now. And while I try never to be coarse or abrasive or derisive, I just tell people openly and honestly that I’m better than their existing advisor. (Which I honestly believe. I don’t think you’ll find a better advisor than me within a hundred miles of here. I have more education, more experience, bigger scope of services, more technical knowledge, and a better investment philosophy.)

Sure, some people push back. They say, “My guy is very friendly. I like him a lot.” Or, “He’s a good, upright, moral, Christian man.” Or “Well, he’s done all the rest of my family for twenty years.” I’ve even had people say, “Oh, I like the way you explain things. It makes more sense when you say it. Can you explain this to my guy?” And to all these, I’m starting to give the same response: “If you want it done right, by an actual technician, then I’ll do it. If you want to keep talking to a relatively incompetent salesman, then keep going to him. But I won’t answer any more questions on his investment accounts.
Not even tax questions.” And believe it or not, it actually has worked. People seem to appreciate it when you’re honest and forthcoming with them, even when it’s about a decades-old relationship.

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On to the pricing part: I was struggling with how to price everything. Do you charge an hourly rate? A regular retainer fee? Or just AUM? This is what has worked:

I tell them that I charge a separate, hourly fee for financial planning. That is completely separate from the investment management, which is a separate fee.

Not surprisingly, I get a lot of “Well, I have a guy at Edward Jones that does all that for me.” When I hear that, I pull out my brochure. (I have a brochure that explains all the different pieces of a financial plan. About 20% of it is devoted to investments. The other 80% is about cash flow, retirement, estate, education, risk management, taxes, etc.) I say, “Yep. I hear that a lot. Most advisors do ‘comprehensive’ financial planning, but they charge for it according to your assets undermanagement.”

“Let me paraphrase that for you: Pay me to do this ( the investment management), and I’ll give you all of this (cash flow, retirement, estate, wealth transfer, philanthropy, risk management) for FREE!!! Do you believe that? If you pay someone to do investment management, then that’s what you’ll get. If you don’t pay someone to do (estate, retirement, cash flow, risk management), then they won’t do it. Why would they? They have no incentive to spend an inordinate amount of time and energy on “financial planning”. Especially when it takes away from the “investment management” that they DO make money on.”

In short–you want me to do financial planning and actually go through this with you, I’ll charge a separate fee. And it’s the same fee ($175/hr) as tax work. Now, you can go on a payment plan where you pay $X per month, and you’ll just always have a running balance. But if you want something more than just “investment management”, then that’s what you’ll have to pay for.

And again–it actually works! People appreciate the fact that you’re not just blowing smoke, and that you’re actually doing the things that you say you’ll do–even if they have to pay extra for it. Because now they realize that it’s actually getting done, as opposed to the “pay for investments and I’ll give you planning for free” guy, who uses all the correct verbiage, but really only pays lip service to “financial planning”.

Congratulations! Have you fully replaced your old income?

Not quite. But after only six months, I’m probably 2/3 there. And a lot of that six months was a whirlwind of finding software, finding office space, changing address, developing client-facing material, etc. I think I’ll be there (or beyond) by next year.

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Awesome, congrats man. Always good to hear of a success story on AF.

Nice job green man. Living the American dream!