I bought some shares…*crosses fingers*
ValueAddict Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Paulson & Co is going to take a huge hit… I think Paulson will do just fine. He saw the opportunity and made a boatload of the money for him and his clients. His repuation as a manager will not suffer. After all, your investors won’t care if you are f*@&ing others over; as long as you don’t go Madoff on THEM; they couldn’t care less. In fact, many European backers of Madoff long suspected Madoff was using his market making business to benefit his fund. Did they ever think “Geez, we gotta stop investing in this guy’s fund because he is ripping off other people.” No, they didn’t give a #*@. My opinion, Paulson will suffer a minor blow. Goldman, on the other hand, will have a major problem. It’s hard to sell bonds if you have a repuation of f@*@ing your clients over.
Don’t hate the playa, hate the game. Yes, maybe Goldman is at fault that it didn’t disclose, but think about it, would it make that much different if independent third party would put together this CDO deal? NO. So please, don’t blame goldman for your losses
comp_sci_kid Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Don’t hate the playa, hate the game. > > Yes, maybe Goldman is at fault that it didn’t > disclose, but think about it, would it make that > much different if independent third party would > put together this CDO deal? NO. So please, don’t > blame goldman for your losses Did you read the SEC filing? They went out and marketed the CDOs as good stuff. This toure guy even said Paulson owns 200m of this ABACUS stuff himself. In reality Paulson was shorting the crap out of it, and hand picked it to fail.
i wonder if there will be any ramifications with him being in treasury and ensuring aig’s bailout - maybe he knew they’d call him out if he didn’t
Good luck with any CFA charterholders working for GS. If this is the practice there, you wont be holding your charter for very long.
mar350 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > i wonder if there will be any ramifications with > him being in treasury and ensuring aig’s bailout - > maybe he knew they’d call him out if he didn’t Wrong Paulson, Hank Paulson was in Treasury and he was GS ex CEO.
mar350 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > i wonder if there will be any ramifications with > him being in treasury and ensuring aig’s bailout - > maybe he knew they’d call him out if he didn’t Wrong Paulson. Hank Paulson was Secretary of Treasurer. John Paulson (who is involved in this matter) is president of Paulson & Co. Hedge Fund (returned about 38% in 2008 when stocks were tanking). Paulson now is heavily involved with some Gold based hedge fund right now. Gold has dropped today big time on speculation Paulson may have to sell some off to pay a fine if one comes his way.
yeah, they turns out they are completely unrelated… this is definitely fraud
adehbone Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > comp_sci_kid Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Don’t hate the playa, hate the game. > > > > Yes, maybe Goldman is at fault that it didn’t > > disclose, but think about it, would it make > that > > much different if independent third party would > > put together this CDO deal? NO. So please, > don’t > > blame goldman for your losses > > Did you read the SEC filing? They went out and > marketed the CDOs as good stuff. This toure guy > even said Paulson owns 200m of this ABACUS stuff > himself. In reality Paulson was shorting the crap > out of it, and hand picked it to fail. Obviously he did not, it’s our job to enlighten ppl who are pimpin the defendant. From SEC complaint: “…Undisclosed in the marketing materials and unbeknownst to investors, a large hedge fund, Paulson & Co. Inc. (“Paulson”), with economic interests directly adverse to investors in the ABACUS 2007-AC1 CDO, played a significant role in the portfolio selection process. After participating in the selection of the reference portfolio, Paulson effectively shorted the RMBS portfolio it helped select by entering into credit default swaps (“CDS”) with GS&Co to buy protection on specific layers of the ABACUS 2007-AC1 capital structure.”
Lets play a game and see how many accusations violate which standards! I need to review ethics.
comp_sci_kid Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Don’t hate the playa, hate the game. > > Yes, maybe Goldman is at fault that it didn’t > disclose, but think about it, would it make that > much different if independent third party would > put together this CDO deal? NO. So please, don’t > blame goldman for your losses A lot of people lost their jobs at RBS, ABN-Amro, and many other European banks as they went out of business ( partially - not totally - because they bought this garbage). If an independent third party had selected the bonds in the CDO, there is no way 99% of the bonds would have been downgraded within 6 month of the deal. ( according to the filing). “By January 2008, 99% of the CDO’s portfolio had been downgraded, the complaint said. As a result of that bet, Paulson made about $1 billion and investors lost more than $1 billion, SEC said. Goldman was paid $15 million for the deal with Paulson.”
^Screwing your clients was on the list, no?
And… itstoohot… AND??? As i am saying if portfolio WOULDNT be hand picked by Paulson, losses would still be there… yes GS is at fault, but don’t blame it for losing your money.
mo34 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > comp_sci_kid Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Don’t hate the playa, hate the game. > > > > Yes, maybe Goldman is at fault that it didn’t > > disclose, but think about it, would it make > that > > much different if independent third party would > > put together this CDO deal? NO. So please, > don’t > > blame goldman for your losses > > > A lot of people lost their jobs at RBS, ABN-Amro, > and many other European banks as they went out of > business ( partially - not totally - because they > bought this garbage). > > If an independent third party had selected the > bonds in the CDO, there is no way 99% of the bonds > would have been downgraded within 6 month of the > deal. ( according to the filing). > > > “By January 2008, 99% of the CDO’s portfolio had > been downgraded, the complaint said. As a result > of that bet, Paulson made about $1 billion and > investors lost more than $1 billion, SEC said. > Goldman was paid $15 million for the deal with > Paulson.” Probably, but losses would still be there, and people would still lose their jobs. Yes, GS wasn’t objective in this deal, but again, let me reiterate, DON’T BLAME GS FOR YOUR LOSSES. It is the same way as people blame banks for subprime crisis when they were taking it out 105s left and right.
comp_sci_kid Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > And… itstoohot… AND??? As i am saying if > portfolio WOULDNT be hand picked by Paulson, > losses would still be there… yes GS is at > fault, but don’t blame it for losing your money. “Losses” would have been there, but not “catastrophic losses” that can drive banks and investors out of business. The 99% number is huge. I am sure as they dig deeper they will find that even the individual mortgages where probably hand picked ( think Riverside, CA or in Florida somewhere) to maximize the probability of a downgrade.
this is going to take years to play out. GS will fight the SEC in court for their suit and depending on the outcome will be in court for years facing several class-action lawsuits from the investors. By the time there is a resolution on this people will no longer care and will have moved on to chasing some other bubble.
mo34 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > comp_sci_kid Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > And… itstoohot… AND??? As i am saying if > > portfolio WOULDNT be hand picked by Paulson, > > losses would still be there… yes GS is at > > fault, but don’t blame it for losing your > money. > > > “Losses” would have been there, but not > “catastrophic losses” that can drive banks and > investors out of business. > > The 99% number is huge. I am sure as they dig > deeper they will find that even the individual > mortgages where probably hand picked ( think > Riverside, CA or in Florida somewhere) to maximize > the probability of a downgrade. As i said, it is clearly a misrepresentation, but, i would charge SEC with Civil suite, for failure to recognize housing issue and failure to regulate it… but wait… lets blame it all on bankers, how convinient
HighYielder Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > this is going to take years to play out. GS will > fight the SEC in court for their suit and > depending on the outcome will be in court for > years facing several class-action lawsuits from > the investors. By the time there is a resolution > on this people will no longer care and will have > moved on to chasing some other bubble. it won’t take years, they gonna do it hard and fast. Goldman is fuccked if you still can’t see it. btw how can I buy puts on john paulson’s reputation?
itstoohot Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > HighYielder Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > this is going to take years to play out. GS > will > > fight the SEC in court for their suit and > > depending on the outcome will be in court for > > years facing several class-action lawsuits from > > the investors. By the time there is a > resolution > > on this people will no longer care and will > have > > moved on to chasing some other bubble. > > it won’t take years, they gonna do it hard and > fast. Goldman is fuccked if you still can’t see > it. > > btw how can I buy puts on john paulson’s > reputation? If it happens, this will be the worst thing that happened to US Capital Markets. Take a look at what happened in Russia with YUKOS… and draw parallels.