someone should post this link in the L1 forum…maybe i should do it since i have that reputation now
I went to a pretty prestigious US college, rhymes with Bratwurst, and at such places they don’t really let you major in useful things. Even Econ, which would be the most “businessy” major isn’t really that useful. I majored in something slightly less useful than gay-transgender-african-american-homosexual-eskimo studies. In any case, I find the CFA program has been useful for me somewhat in making the argument that I’m just not another snooty liberal arts grad that can’t deal with “hard science” or whatever it is you call it. Still, I can say without a drop of doubt, that it has not been as useful as being able to put my school on my CV. But… My school, has not been nearly as useful as me just being a decent reasonable person, not terrible looking, smart enough, and overall a pleasure to work with. For all you qualification hunters trying find a linear route into whatever field it is you are trying to break into, I would suggest working on those soft skills because odds are that is where you are lacking. This goes double for all you Asian math whizzes. a) Join a Gym; go on a diet b) Buy some decent clothes. Not flashy, but quality. c) Read a few self help books on how to do deal with humans and most importantly how to at least pretend to empathize. d) Learn how to charm the pants off of women. e) Try reading and talking about something that will demonstrate that you are an interesting, intelligent, and thoughtful person. Perhaps take up an interesting hobby unrelated to World of Warcraft or anything involving magic. Don’t be just an automaton of quant. At the end of the day we all need to take a good look at ourselves in the mirror and work on our weak points, which we all have.
Chicken Tikka, you are turning in to a Guru. See what a prolonged stay in India is doing to you?
Amherst rocks son, they have some sick clay courts on campus
ChickTikka…if i eat you will i absorb your wisdom?
ChickenTikka, that is funny. there is merit to some of the points you make. Thx for bringing some levity as we go thru this wait.
I’m in Toronto so the Ivey league thing doesn’t really apply here as much. I don’t understand how everyone assumes that if you can’t find a job in finance and are well educated you must be a social pariah. My observation has really been that its not what you know but who you know. So much for living in a meritocracy. Being a CFA forum I created this thread so that the collective internet community can confirm what everybody knows and no one seems to really address (at least not with any amount of emphasis) which is: Do not waste your time or money pursuing the CFA until you have an industry job. Otherwise 3 years, a few thousand dollars and around 1000 hours of study time later you’ll still find yourself 4 years away from possessing anything useful (academic curiosities aside).
i dont think you are the first one to come to that conclusion. all these discussions pretty much boil down to exactly what you said. I agree with you completely.
I don’t know if that’s necessarily true, for entry level guys, I think it helps them be taken more seriously. Maybe not for older folks.
mathlete Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I’m in Toronto so the Ivey league thing doesn’t > really apply here as much. I don’t understand how > everyone assumes that if you can’t find a job in > finance and are well educated you must be a social > pariah. My observation has really been that its > not what you know but who you know. So much for > living in a meritocracy. > > Being a CFA forum I created this thread so that > the collective internet community can confirm what > everybody knows and no one seems to really address > (at least not with any amount of emphasis) which > is: > > Do not waste your time or money pursuing the CFA > until you have an industry job. Otherwise 3 years, > a few thousand dollars and around 1000 hours of > study time later you’ll still find yourself 4 > years away from possessing anything useful > (academic curiosities aside). If you are in the right school, with the right degree ,with the right GPA and the right work ethic and you STILL can’t land an entry level job out of school, then the likelihood is a) that there is something wrong with you far and b) you’re applying for positions that are not entry level positions. Those two reasons FAR outweigh the probability that nepotism is is present and you’re a victim. The people that claim the we got hired as a result of our “connections” are really just the sore losers that couldn’t make the cut (Sorry). Now, on this “who you know” idea - if you’re doing everything right in school (which you seem to claim is the case), then you should be quite involved academically with clubs, social events and hopefully have a great relationship with your professors. That is a very valuable tool to meet industry people. In a job application you stand a much better chance to scoring that interview (and with your superior interview skills, land the job) when the guy who’s reading the resume goes “oh yes, Joe… I met him at the U of XX… nice guy…”
Bah… Extra post not required anymore ( I didn’t know which school rhymed with Bratwurst) Can I delete posts?? Dope This must mean I failed L3
mathlete - do you look good? Do you work out and go to the gym? Physical appearance does make a difference in interviews especially for analyst roles where they want people to work hard. Are you personable? Do you smile when you meet people? These soft skills can get you over the hump in a tough hiring environment.
batgirl4ever Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Bah… Extra post not required anymore ( I didn’t > know which school rhymed with Bratwurst) > > Can I delete posts?? > > Dope > > This must mean I failed L3 lol
As an unemployed, frustrated, bitter and hopeless 25 year old I agree with batgirl4ever…how can i not…its Batgirl !! Mathlete how old are you? Have you applied to the Big4 Accounting firms?..get into Audit for 3 years…earn the ACA…then with your qualifications u can get to many places. Regarding Nepotism…90% of the ppl I went to class with in UK (Msc fin) are from Asia and they have all sorts of finance related positions in a country foreign to them not only in terms of language/culture and customs but also and perhaps most annoyingly have to deal with the possibilty of being the perfect candidate for a job only to be striked out by work visa issues…Do they know anyone? I think not. With your education/extensive extra curricular activities I am sure you will find something worthwhile…Me on the otherhand…I am absolutely AWKWARD at interviews / social pariah + mind numbing panic attacks…and thats just me saying it Saul Bellow :A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep
mathlete Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I’m in Toronto so the Ivey league thing doesn’t > really apply here as much. I don’t understand how > everyone assumes that if you can’t find a job in > finance and are well educated you must be a social > pariah. My observation has really been that its > not what you know but who you know. So much for > living in a meritocracy. > > Being a CFA forum I created this thread so that > the collective internet community can confirm what > everybody knows and no one seems to really address > (at least not with any amount of emphasis) which > is: > > Do not waste your time or money pursuing the CFA > until you have an industry job. Otherwise 3 years, > a few thousand dollars and around 1000 hours of > study time later you’ll still find yourself 4 > years away from possessing anything useful > (academic curiosities aside). I think the problem is with expectations. People think that because they have the charter they should be “entitled” to a mid-level job when, in fact, they are still only qualified for entry level because they have no experience. It sucks, but unless you catch a break sometimes you have to start at the bottom. And I would argue that you don’t need any experience to get a true entry level job. This is coming from someone that started as a fund accountant, which is probably the worst job in the financial world.
batgirl4ever Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > mathlete Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > I’m in Toronto so the Ivey league thing doesn’t > > really apply here as much. I don’t understand > how > > everyone assumes that if you can’t find a job > in > > finance and are well educated you must be a > social > > pariah. My observation has really been that its > > not what you know but who you know. So much for > > living in a meritocracy. > > > > Being a CFA forum I created this thread so that > > the collective internet community can confirm > what > > everybody knows and no one seems to really > address > > (at least not with any amount of emphasis) > which > > is: > > > > Do not waste your time or money pursuing the > CFA > > until you have an industry job. Otherwise 3 > years, > > a few thousand dollars and around 1000 hours of > > study time later you’ll still find yourself 4 > > years away from possessing anything useful > > (academic curiosities aside). > > If you are in the right school, with the right > degree ,with the right GPA and the right work > ethic and you STILL can’t land an entry level job > out of school, then the likelihood is a) that > there is something wrong with you far and b) > you’re applying for positions that are not entry > level positions. Those two reasons FAR outweigh > the probability that nepotism is is present and > you’re a victim. The people that claim the we got > hired as a result of our “connections” are really > just the sore losers that couldn’t make the cut > (Sorry). > > Now, on this “who you know” idea - if you’re doing > everything right in school (which you seem to > claim is the case), then you should be quite > involved academically with clubs, social events > and hopefully have a great relationship with your > professors. That is a very valuable tool to meet > industry people. In a job application you stand a > much better chance to scoring that interview (and > with your superior interview skills, land the job) > when the guy who’s reading the resume goes “oh > yes, Joe… I met him at the U of XX… nice > guy…” Didn’t see this until after I posted, but agree 100%.
pimpineasy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > cfa vs mba? Basically the answer to this whole discussion. I think as some people pointed out (don’t know your age/work experience so far) but going for CFA to land a job is probably only good for entry level at best. That’s what I’m hoping for. If it doesn’t work and I’m stuck at this place for a few years I’ll probably go to a MBA program. It might not be as quick as I’d like but it’s not a waste to study for the CFA. Don’t get down mathlete. Focus on how you will re-position yourself and maintain a positive attitude. You gotta have a plan B. Edit: Success story - A friend passed level 1 after two years of irrelevant experience and got into wealth management. Not big analyst spot, but getting some work experience and can maneuver internal hopefully.
my current employer doesn’t even know what CFA stands for
passme Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > my current employer doesn’t even know what CFA > stands for Top Ten signs you might need a job change.
Batgirl: Really would love to spend my time in bars socialize with MBA people, however for those of us not being funded by our parents i.e. have bills like a mortgage to pay that is not a luxury I can afford. Doing an MBA, CFA and working full time is about all the time I have for anything at this stage. You also seem to be making the same point twice that is “the who know not what you know point”. I have no problem with someone hiring someone else because of a personal relationship. I do however have a problem when junior analyst are hired out of an undergrad in political science and don’t know the difference between a stock and a bond. I find in the Toronto job market (and possibly elsewhere) 95% of jobs are given away to acquaintances qualifications be damned. Its not that your education is worth less than you think, its that your education is really not worth anything at all. Companies bear the cost of training new connected hires from scratch rather than take qualified people already in the job market. I guess the moral of the story is that life’s not fair, its just compounded by the fact that educational institutions charge the rest of us an arm and a leg on top of it all while offering no real competitive advantage. So not only don’t you get the job you want, you’re stuck with a worthless piece of paper and tens of thousands of dollars of debt. END RANT