+2
I guess that means you can’t get good service there either.
I can’t side with the haters, but do get why so many of you would be resentful after reading such lengthy post. OP - to my mind - doesn’t add any value. Come to think of it, it’s hatred he expects and it seems he’s getting it.
I would appreciate some balance here… How can you judge French in general based on one man? Keep your cool… Am French, and despite what’s been said above, still love America. please don’t make me change my mind!
Well I am taking CFA and I am currently selling investment-linked insurance policy and unit trust. Purpose of me in getting a charterholder is to illicit more trust from my future clients into investing more money like multiple 100k based on the funds I suggested and not purely on the company I represent. I seriously believes that it would help me pull more weight with one than without one. The other thing is it would most likely be easier for me to network with other charterholders who is already in the field and can go to them like buddies for help on how to understand and analyze things better, improving my skills, latest methods etc.
The french invented the french kiss and sex during the day…take that americans!
Well as our frog-leg enjoying buddy has mentioned, he loves the contrarian trade so this may be a little devils advocate. But it’s not like he doesn’t have a point, if you don’t have the intelligence and haven’t put in the hard work and have failed several times as a result well maybe it’s just not for you.
On the other hand I have the most respect for people with tenacity and determination so if you’ve failed several times for good reason (personal issues/work got a lot busier etc) than fair enough.
Everybody does the CFA for their own personal reasons, as long as they are aware of the reasons, the reasons are good, they are aware of and accepting of the sacrifices they are making (regardless of result) and they aren’t in any kind of denial of what they have undertaken I don’t think there is any limit to how many tries you should take.
As for the haters, Micholien seems pretty objective and self-aware to me
Anyway, we should admire those guys who take 5-7 consecutive attemps. Many attemps themselves are courage already, I cannot afford to take 5-7 or more years to pass Level II or Level III. So, we should respect this true-hero spirit.
On the other hand, the institute can lower the pass rate to control the no. of charterholders.(But IMO, I think too many people pass the exams. The instittute should further lower the pass rate).
I work 8-hr per day, and still strived to learn 3 hours after work. I used to slept on 1:30 and get up on 7:30 next day. That’s what I did to pass Level II after I passed Level I in last Dec. I think people should learn harder.
Work is never an excuse.
Nice post. To be honest I thought of the same thing this year. I failed L2 in 2010 by pretty much doing nothing and then narrowly in 2011 and passed this year. I feel that I worked hard in 2011 and 2012 so I really wasn’t sure what I was going to do if I failed this year and I was contemplating giving it up for the very reasons the post is about (maybe it’s not for me). I think there is merit what you say about the program but I also think that it’s not really comparable to medical exams, the latter being the stricter of the two. In medicine, and correct me if I’m wrong, they can only practise once they have fully obtained there charter or medical board exam or whatever. There are no restrictions to practise investment without a charter and hence it’s a little less necessary to be stricter and have the brightest people in the industry. I know it sounds critical but it’s a small point none the less. But other than that I kind of agree that there should be a limit, although maybe a limit of like 3 times or so. Also, if there was a limit I reckon you’d probs have more people passing because they know they have to pass in that amount of times and would therefore be more determined. I reckon there’s a lot of people that hit it with half effort because they know they can do it again the next year.
I can’t believe all the silly remarks people have about OP’s being French.
IMO it’s not wise to fail and retake so many times because it’s such a consuming process.
But I suppose that the number of people who failed 3-6 times then go on to get the charter is few and far between anyway. So what’s the big deal? I know quite a few people who fail 3 and 4 times, and one failed 6 times (level 2); all ultimately gave up. If someone spends 15 years getting the charter and had no life, and he/she is not embarrassed about disclosing the failures, then I’d say good for them.
A few things:
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Most people seem to disregard the volatility of the results. CFA results are ex-post - a lot of people who passed any level could’ve failed if they took it in a different year. Personally, I managed to hit 90s on L3 mocks and I won’t be much surprised to fail next week. There are probably few charterholders who were completely sure they passed after every single level.
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The point of the exams is to show that the candidate has that minimum amount of knowledge. As long as one eventually gets that, they’re on the same level. Someone who takes 2 tries but gets >70 on everything probably knows the curriculum better than someone who passed at first by guessing some question right thus avoiding band 10.
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Most candidates forget most of the curriculum anyway. As much as most of us would hate it, regular retests would keep charterholders sharper at the minimum level of knowledge required. If I’m hiring, I don’t care how many tries my employees took to get the charter - I care if they know finance, today, be it stuff from the curriculum and more.
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If someone failed a few times, and wants the CFA, they should get it - it’s not like they can go back in time and pass it on the first try. It shouldn’t be up to CFAI to decide what’s best for each candidate.
I don’t think CFA requires some minimum level of intelligence or whatever nonsense. As long as one can understand the curriculum, what is needed is to study a lot/use good methods, and maybe get a little lucky. Each person can weight how much they need the charter or how much they like/dread the study against other things in life.
I never understood the “too many people are passing argument”. I think they’ve got to about the appropriate amount of people passing. Enough people have it that it is pretty much acknowledged as the gold standard, yet only about 100,000 people have earned the right to use the designation. This is a drop in the bucket compared to the number of MBA’s. There are millions of MBA’s stumbling around the planet and no one feels that this has significantly diminished the value of an advanced degree. Not to mention the CFA is miniscule financial investment when compared to an MBA. So, people are still willing to shell out for a degree that a ton of people have and the marketplace is telling them that this is still a good decision. So, I’d really hold off for a long while on the too many people are passing arguments.
read through most of the comments on this thread, there a valid arguments on both sides except for the racist attacks that could have been avoided.
I do understand that a certification exam like CFA is different from an entrance exam like the medical exam in france. Howvere, I would like to state an example from India where a similar limit on the number of tries is applied to the engineering entrance exam to the IIT’s which similar to your SAT’s in the US. IIT’s for those who do not know are sort of the ivy league for engineering in India, till a couple of years back there were students who would make into the IIT’s in their fifth or sixth attempt and there would be others who would give after 4-5 years then joing other engineering colleges.
However, as per the new ruling the number of attempts has been limited to two. One of the reasons stated was that too many of them wasted their years trying to get into this top rung university when they had access to equally good colleges.
Like I said CFA and the IIT entrance cannot be equated, but on some level I do agree that 7 attempts to pass each level is a bit much.
One of the better malapropisms I’ve seen in a while!
One should understand that CFA charterholders have to compete with all sort of people other MBA guys and perhaps even some engineers and other quant type guys who quite to our predicament can be preferred over charterholders. So its a motley world around there and perhaps CFA inst. could focus on better networking of charterholders, which is the headstart ivy leauge guys get.
There are some exams which have sectional riders and cutoffs like the Indian exams Late_Starter mentioned, which really is a pain because you can be the best and still not make the cut and all the candidate worries about is meeting those cutoffs and be calculative about it instead of being passionate about the material. Respect CFA inst. for not getting into all that Decadent stuff which would probably make the exam more difficult but less enjoyable to candidates which should never be the case. One can always raise the overall cut-off but getting into sectionals would be destroying the spirit and really not a progressive thought.
Also who said anything about the attempts. The poor guy is expected to accumulate some valuable experience too. IMHO I would care more about the Charter getting stronger. The qualified pool shouldnt be too less so that the access of charterholders to the industry gets affected, which in turn affects the newly qualified charterholders entry into industry because then other MBA and quant guys fill that space and build their Economies of scale, if you know what I mean ??
Remember the ICFAI tried to be more exclusive and tried to make the charter a legal requirement for investment profession in India but failed to do so and producing only select candidates didnt help making the ‘Label’ more attractive to employers. It only made it more obscure. Still I couldnt understand how accounting profession needs a certain license or certificate but not an investment profession but going in that direction would need a separate discussion.
Of course being a charterholder is about being a select group of individuals and being special not the usual run of the mill. I feel Modified Angoff method is a pretty suave method and must be considering the Market dynamics of demand and supply of charterholders. Of couse we should not assume that the institute lacks intelligence to this aspect. Considering the current economic scenario I think it might as well limit the passing perc. downwards but then again it shouldnt do it to the glee of other substitutes.
How true is Michael Porter here and his statement in ending para of '5 forces that shape strategy. “Imagine the improvement in company performance if all the energy was spent in “pleasing the street” was redirected towards factor that create true economic value”
and also
“The conversation between the investors and executives should focus on the structural not the transient”.
I think here the Investor = the student and the Executive = the CFA institute, period.
I am sure this anxiousness is never ending because the employers would keep on demanding more and more even though CFA institute tries to put all the best knowledge in III examinations. The only answer to this game I think is that the charterholders need to get a security about having the ‘just about’- expected job and then play huge on the Networking aspect.
Unlike the French, us Americans actually work!
“us Americans”, that’s funny!
sorry, couldn’t resist. why do some americans insist on living up to the stereotype of arrogant ignoramus?
didnt read the second and third pages… loved the debate on first page though… 
to CFA it would be great if CFAI gives a certificate to those people who clear all their levels in first attempts. ofcourse, nothing to be taken away from multiple-attempt candidates or their knowledge, but first-timers do need a motivation. this way , people who give exams just ‘for experience’ would refrain from doing so.
Above is really Shit for brains argument. Those who said anything about the French being parochial and Americans being Arrogant ignoramus dont know much about the types above.
CFAI has made it amply clear that they wont like to distinguish between charterholders. So you are an exotic charterholder and the other is a plain vanilla chartherholder is what you mean to say.You need motivation go and climb Mt. Everest. A callous person doesnt appear for CFA exams "just of experience.!