wow thanks for the info. i would the majority of adcoms to be clueless, at least in your experience… im thinking about applying for an MBA program in 2011 or even 2012, so i would love to hear peoples experiences.
Valueaddict sums up why CFA isn’t a big deal. Most students grads don’t have it. Many don’t know what it is. You may be interviewing with an alum in consulting, management, IB or marketing. They have no clue what the CFA is all about. It’s prob more valuable at CBS and UChicago but it is generally not a big deal. The best thing about the CFA is that it helps with the Essays regarding your long term goals and what you’ve done so ar to realize them.
"Age: 23, 2 years of back-office work experience at a noted (investment) bank " No shot at Harvard now. Very unlikely even in 2 years. I don’t know how much research you’ve done on MBA programs, but your peak career stage is 4-5 years. You are too young, unless you have done something spectacular (like starting a business and selling it for $40M by age 23). or, at a minimum, worked for 2 years at McKinsey or Goldman. Frankly, you won’t ever be getting into a top 5 program unless you get promoted rapidly in BO or move to FO. What do you guys mean by “ethnic minority?” Being a minority doesn’t help unless you are an underrepresented (in US) minority (Black, hispanic, native american, eskimo). There’s no shortage of asians in B-School.
buyicide Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > "Age: 23, 2 years of back-office work experience > at a noted (investment) bank " > > No shot at Harvard now. Very unlikely even in 2 > years. I don’t know how much research you’ve done > on MBA programs, but your peak career stage is 4-5 > years. You are too young, unless you have done > something spectacular (like starting a business > and selling it for $40M by age 23). or, at a > minimum, worked for 2 years at McKinsey or > Goldman. > > Frankly, you won’t ever be getting into a top 5 > program unless you get promoted rapidly in BO or > move to FO. > > What do you guys mean by “ethnic minority?” Being > a minority doesn’t help unless you are an > underrepresented (in US) minority (Black, > hispanic, native american, eskimo). There’s no > shortage of asians in B-School. +1 or Indian IT guys…
Biggest thing you guys have working against you is lack of experience. Go out, work for abit, DISCOVER what you want. Do you have any idea how many people get into IB and quit within 2 years and never want to do it again? Ditto with BO functions (altho few people dream about BO). As a result, they want you to go out and try your hand at the world and figure out what you want, then spend some time figuring out how to get there, and finally, they want to know how they can help you accomplish that goal. Even if you end up doing something else, they want the man with the plan not someone still exploring their identity to find themselves. You guys have great academic creds; I find it interesting the NYU guy didnt know what the CFA program was - since NYU will let you waive two core courses - Finance and Corporate Finance - if you have the full charter. Its not that they don’t care, its that its a very objective and well defined accomplishment - eg, what can you really say about it that is not easily understood from simply looking at it. As far as backups, I know people in FO functions and ER that went to Fordham, alot of people actually. Good backup school, it was my backup in case I didnt get what I wanted. I really liked the program and Admi Director - seems like they really do alot to help their grads get somewhere. Introed me to a former high school teacher who got into ER with their help after starting the program p/t and switching to full time for final year (they helped her get an internship and that launched her). In contrast, other programs expect a great deal of self-reliance.
To me, an MBA is not worth its value if it’s not from a top program. Why not stick out for another year and another chance rather than to settle with lesser brand?
Totally agree with phBOOM. I am applying next year to Harvard, Columbia, Kellogg, and Darden (I like the case method). Maybe Wharton, too. My GPA wasn’t stellar (3.2), but I graduated from a top school, have two undergrad degrees (the first one I got when I was 18), speak six languages, come from an international background, belong to more than one minority group, worked as ER associate at major bank (2 yrs now), will get recommendation from lead analyst (II-ranked), have solid volunteering/leadership experience, and can write good essays with a lot of trutful BS! I’m also about to take the GMAT with hopes of obtaining 720+… Regarding the 2 yrs BO experience, don’t worry. It REALLY depends on how you spin your story. Why are you in BO? I doubt it’s because you’re not smart, given that you went to a good school and managed to get a 3.7 GPA. Is it because you were lacking a specific skill two yrs ago (e.g.: resume writing skills, networking, etc)? Have you improved on this? Prove it! Were you simply not interested? What can you do to show HBS admissions people that you were going through a “dark stage of life” and have bounced back higher than ever? Did you actually like your BO job? Even if this is possible, be careful not to sound fake. My point is, don’t be discouraged. If you’ve contributed significantly to your work environment and have at least enjoyed it, even if it’s BO, and can spin it efficiently, you should at least get an interview. And, even if you don’t get it, what’s the shame in trying? I hope you all get into your target schools.
for the record, i’m an underrepresented minority, but i want that to matter as little as possible. this was a humbling experience. thanks for the candid feedback, but i’ve no idea how i could possibly get into FO…i think i’ll try for it and as long as my objective measures (GPA/GMAT) are competitive, what will be will be.
One top ten school rejects 75% of applicants with 750+ gmats. Half the class has under 710 (710 median). There really is more to the app than gmat/gpa. It doesn’t matter how good the other stuff is unless you have accomp[lished something in your career.
dennis2085 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > for the record, i’m an underrepresented minority, > This does change things. You need to look into the Consortium. It’s a program that gets underrep minorities into school. Everything I’ve said applies to whites/asians/indians. You’re playing in a different league. You may have a shot at top 10 if your gmat is competitive. Maybe not harvard, but a good school.
as you said, it’s a shot in the dark at this point. i don’t think you see me arguing any of your points - in fact, i’m glad you’re being straight up instead of saying i have a good shot when i don’t. however, i’m not happy at my job and this is one of my only chances to drastically change the direction of my career (without leaving it to chance or “meeting someone”). with all that’s been said, i’m still going to try. i would be silly to not apply because someone on a message board said i had a low chance of getting in. i just know to not get my hopes up, which is what i would have done otherwise. i mean, i don’t have experience but two years in this type of work was more than enough time to perfectly articulate exactly what i want to do. if it happens, i’ll know i wasn’t a shoe-in and if it doesn’t, i won’t be surprised.
buyicide Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > dennis2085 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > for the record, i’m an underrepresented > minority, > > > > This does change things. You need to look into > the Consortium. It’s a program that gets underrep > minorities into school. Everything I’ve said > applies to whites/asians/indians. You’re playing > in a different league. You may have a shot at top > 10 if your gmat is competitive. Maybe not > harvard, but a good school. — wow. you seem to have missed the part where i said i didn’t want that to matter (as much as it’s going to, regardless of whatever i try to do). so i’m not going to use a “program” to help get me into a top business school. frankly, i downright resent you saying i’m playing a different league because that different league didn’t pass me two levels of the CFA back to back at a very young age, but i digress. as i’ve repeatedly said, i understand your points about my current credentials not being up to harvard level. that being said, i think i can fix most of the things you pointed out. it’s not like i had a 2.5 and currently working at a mcdonalds, you know. not every underrepresented minority gets to where they get because someone lowered their standards for them.
I’m trying to be pragmatic. I didn’t invent these programs. You want o be a jerk, fine. Rot in your back office. Based on your qualifications YOU HAVE NO SHOT! I’m throwing something else out there.
C’mon people, let’s be nice. We all deserve the chance to try. Dennis, have you started on the essays yet? I think the essays will be the most critical part of the application that can make or break any candidate regardless of the background/credential. Start writing, it’s fine, difficult and rewarding at the same time.
i apologize if you think i was being a jerk, i do appreciate your advice. i think the things you said i lack are fixable so i don’t understand why you’re so dismissive of my accomplishments, which are not far off from other people who posted here. work experience? i can get that. leadership? have it, but i could develop that too. age? i’ll get older, that’s for sure! it’s such a lose-lose situation - if i accept all the things i could accept because i’m underrepresented, then people think i’m underqualified (and that’s being PC about it). if i reject that route, then i’m stupid/misguided. “rot in my back office” - that’s nice, thanks for the vote of confidence. one thing i can guarantee you is that that will never happen.
These programs exist to give advantages to disadvantaged people. Look – a lot of people who make it to the big time had it handed to them. Take someone who is born into an affluent family. His dad paid $150K for a college education. His family contacts give him an huge upper hand in the job search. He graduates school without debt. He has a lot of advantages. I see nothing wrong with leveling the playing field.
phBOOM Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > C’mon people, let’s be nice. We all deserve the > chance to try. Dennis, have you started on the > essays yet? I think the essays will be the most > critical part of the application that can make or > break any candidate regardless of the > background/credential. > > Start writing, it’s fine, difficult and rewarding > at the same time. Yes, I’ve finished three out of four essays. I find it to be a good experience…
How much do college grades matter? I have a REALLY low college avg, but my SAT was 1400, GMAT was 720, and am a Level 2 candidate.
cfajedi, how low is “low”?
I hope you guys that project 700+ gmats read this. Rule of thumb: Gmat = SAT/2 For the poster: SAT means nothing. LII means very little. GMAT helps overcome the gpa. Gpa is just one component so if the rest of your profile is good, you should be ok. If it was less than 3.2 you have some explaining. Less than 3.0 than it becomes a real issue.