If I were unemployed in New York, I’d be making about $405 a week. Net of taxes, that’s pretty close to what you’re earning as an “investment officer.” I don’t recommend quitting your job, but things probably can’t get much worse. What company do you work at? Do you still think it’s a “great way to break into the investment industry” now that you know how underpaid you are? What types of marketable skills do you have? You have a pretty attractive job title, but it’s also quite possible that you’re only doing $35,000/year worth of work – who knows? It’d help to know what it is that you do. Also, I’m still trying to understand how you say you were seriously interested in finance but ended up taking this opportunity that pays you virtually peanuts. What they’re willing to pay you is pretty much a revealed preference as to how good the company is, and possibly (though not likely) their opinion of what your contribution is. It’s not too late to change the course of your ship, but we need to understand your line of thinking in order to diagnose and correct the apparent problem. There is a problem here, for sure.
ZeroBonus-I am doing both. I execute the trades and work in a small team to decide what stocks or mutual funds to pick. I have discretion over the investments in my accounts within defined boundaries.
To be honest the experience I’ve taken from this job exceeds any dollar amount. I have quite a bit of freedom to research the markets and contribute to investment meetings. The senior portfolio managers I work with are great mentors. At my age, I don’t believe there is another company out there that would give me as much responsibility three years out of college. So, the reason I haven’t changed companies is because without an MBA or CFA (yet) most jobs would be a major step down. So as you can see I’m between a rock and hard place. Is anyone else out there is a similar position? Any suggestions for positions that would not be a step down with a higher salary for a CFA level III candidate, 3 years out of college?
You gotta bail asap. . . you will never get the $$$ you deserve staying there. You are likely to get a big “pop” if you can leave. . . 100% more is not out of the question!!!
You still haven’t provided much insight into what exactly you do and how you add value. This is the whole problem here. I know you say that you have “great mentors” and that any other place would likely be a “major step down,” but how do you know? How do you know that your mentors aren’t actually mediocre to poor? The reason I ask is because people in finance tend to develop tunnel vision sometimes and they think that whatever the situation they’re in is likely “right,” no matter how “wrong” it may seem. In your case, you are defending your compensation situation by talking about the more educational aspects of your job. This is undoubtedly a good attitude, but how do you know you are really learning that much? Again, you need to take a good look at what your value proposition may be – and by corollary to what you’re saying, one can potentially conclude that undergrads who choose to work at a top investment management firm can earn 3x as much as you, but their mentors and learning experience could be 3x as worse…(huh?) The whole point is, it sounds like you are doing a ton, and perhaps even have more responsibility than someone in investment banking or private equity. I mean, from what I can tell, it sounds like you do more “innovative” stuff than I do, and maybe you should be paid more. But while undergrads in IB and PE are not “officers” of any kind like you are, they still earning multiples of what you’re being paid. Again, what is the value proposition on your side (or theirs)? In an efficient market, people should be paid based on what they are contributing… Ultimately, there are two possible outcomes for your situation – either you are being lowballed because you have no idea what the market is willing to bear for your position, or you are simply just earning what you deserve. I know that the obvious conclusion is that $35,000 a year is “not much” but to me, I still am not sure which is more descriptive of your situation. You’ll have to give us more granular information into what you do every day and how you create value, if you hope to get an objective opinion as to whether or not you’re truly being low-balled. I agree you can do better, but it is not clear to me how much yet. I don’t know how much more clear I can make this, but if you want a true opinion on your situation, you’ll have to provide more details.
this is exactly what happened to my husband (i posted about his exploitation earlier). He took over all sorts of responsibilities and basically replaced more senior ppl who’d left the company but received no sort of promotion or raise even though it is clear that the senior roles are not going to be filled with anyone else. This is tricky bc even though you have gained all of the valuable experience, I can see it backfiring in 2 ways if you continue much longer. For one, HR dep’ts don’t like to up ppls salaries 100% so you might have a hard time getting to mkt rate which should obviously be much higher considering the value/ responsibilities you’ve outlined. Also, when looking elsewhere ppl might question whether you are really a bona-fide pm (see reactions above… “are you really just an admin?”). At least you’ve been given the title, but now you need to get the compensation in line. My hubby finally grew a pair and had a great reaction. His company had the same excuses… “not in the budget”, “we only promote after XX”, “you need XX before we can blah blah” but when it comes down to it if they need you they can work around it. If you really feel that you are worth more they need to pay you more or you need to leave. My 1st job was an admin position and I got more base + I made overtime. Go get -em!!
By the way, just so we’re clear, I am not trying to “grill” you on your situation. I am just trying to encourage you to take a good look at yourself and really get down to the details in figuring out what the source of your problem is, by how much you are being underpaid, and how much better you can do. People on this forum know that I take a pretty hardlined stance against under-compensation because I’m all for the employee getting the best for themselves. However, it does take more than speaking qualitatively about your experience – rather, it requires some level of detailed insight and introspection on your end to diagnose your situation.
Here’s the problem. You havent given any compelling reason why someone else would pay more to hire you, and we don’t know what city you’re in. However, making a gross generalization, I would do this: If you are making that much money and you really think you’re underpaid, then, if I were you, I would start looking at MBA programs. The job market sucks, you said yourself you’re a bit junior anyway, and the economics of the move make perfect sense. Furthermore, if you can articulate that you’ve taken on great responsibility at your job, that should help you in apps. Lastly, if your boss is a decent enough guy he’ll write you a great rec and will understand your motivation for considering school. In fact, its possible they might even realize that losing you would be bad and maybe they’d offer to up your pay to incent you to stay. So you stay another year while applying and in 3 years, you have loyalty at the firm with promotions, your cfa and mba completed, and you’ll be making atleast 150K all-in (assuming top 10 school).
They are using you. And like a fool you continue to get used. How much more mentoring can they provide after 3 years?
numi I hear what you are saying but this is pretty cut and dry. The guy researches and picks investments, has discretionary accounts, and has 180MM AUM. Whether he adds much value or just does the norm, it is worth over 35k anywhere, no matter if its DC or Fargo ND. Agreed you cant tell him what he should be making, but my lord it has to be well in excess of 35k no matter what. And that mentor crap is worthless. Not mentoring, thats worth tons, but you can find smart people that will teach you at most firms, there will always be others to learn from so I wouldnt let that even enter your mind. I think my coworkers are great, but I would never stick around and take it up the tailpipe just cuz they are cool…
also you will face a big problem in terms of salary if you decide to change jobs. They will ask you for your previous salary and if you metioned what you are making now,they will definelty offer no more than 10 % higher than what your previous salary. as far as the experience, i think you hit the jack pot out of college, most of us recent grads started as assistants or if lucky analyst. Good luck to you man.
I appreciate the comments. I hope I’m not sounding like a pity party. I just really want some opinions here. Don’t know how much detail you want me to go into about my job. Here’s the run down. Our trust department has roughly 2 billion under management. My accounts are generally the smaller accounts-600 accounts (so I do a lot of investment reviews) avg account size about 300k, with a few big accounts in there. I advise the sales people on how to invest the accounts. I help the senior PM’s with research projects and occassionally pitch stocks to the group (all of which have done AMAZING by the way). I do ALL of the equity trading for our department, put together all complaince reports, sit on our ESOP committe, do all of the proxy voting and many other random tasks, sometimes my boss gives me his mail to open… Alright I absolutely hate pulling this card out but I can’t help but wonder if this is related…I am the only female in the group.
You know how much your coworkers make?
CFA500 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I appreciate the comments. I hope I’m not sounding > like a pity party. I just really want some > opinions here. > > Don’t know how much detail you want me to go into > about my job. Here’s the run down. Our trust > department has roughly 2 billion under management. > My accounts are generally the smaller accounts-600 > accounts (so I do a lot of investment reviews) avg > account size about 300k, with a few big accounts > in there. I advise the sales people on how to > invest the accounts. I help the senior PM’s with > research projects and occassionally pitch stocks > to the group (all of which have done AMAZING by > the way). I do ALL of the equity trading for our > department, put together all complaince reports, > sit on our ESOP committe, do all of the proxy > voting and many other random tasks, sometimes my > boss gives me his mail to open… Alright I > absolutely hate pulling this card out but I can’t > help but wonder if this is related…I am the only > female in the group. Based on this I would say that you are grossly underpaid and you need to buck up and demand more $$$ or bail where you have the greatest upside potential. I once got a 50% increase in leaving for another job. Sounds like you do a lot. . . as an employer I would hate to lose you.
Everyone’s underpaid I believe (although much better than me), senior PM’s around 100-150k. There’s only one other person on the same level as me and he has only a year experience and has not taken or plans on taking any CFA exams. No clue what he makes but he has a house, pool, truck, boat, trips etc. Things in which you cannot obtain with 35k/yr. Granted don’t know if he has family money or the like.
What kind of disruption would it cause if you were to leave say tomorrow? Would the other guy who’s your level be able to pick up the slack pretty quickly, or no?
CF500, It is now completely clear to me why you are making what you make. You are unclear about your own worth and looking for excuses. You probably don’t want to take risks and rock the boat. Employment is a free market - go get what you want. If its not there, increase your knowledge through school - now knowing youre a girl its even more incentive given that top MBA programs are starving for female talent. Not trying to be a jerk but, dont be wishy washy. Many people are because its safer, but it never pays off.
How many hours a week do you work?
Good question. While I would like to think that the value I add through research etc is irreplaceable I’m not that ignorant. As far as disruptions go, I’m the only one that knows how to do some trading functions, compliance items etc and it would be pretty hard for the rest of the group to pick up 600 extra accounts.
In Finance, you need to have balls to succeed. (Figuratively speaking of course)