markCFAIL Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > - dems da rocks kiddo…but thanks for bringing down the curve and helping the lower the MPS for the rest of us. and now at least you know for next year to write in the provided answer sections and/or read the instructions first. regardless, i prob failed too so im not worried about the bad kharma from posting this.
CFFFAAAAA: What do you mean how I did? You mean how I think I did if they graded it, or you mean you want me to follow up to let you know what comes of their decision to grade or not (about 99% sure they won’t)? Bucky: I have not run this up the ladder, but the customer service rep that I called the day after told me I was SOL, I asked for a supervisor and he said “they’ll tell you the same thing”. But he was kind enough to let me know he would report my comments so they could “take it into consideration for future exam formats”. Let me know what comes of your efforts and what Schweser says as well. Here is a radical idea! Make a question, and then provide room below that question to answer it! I guess not having to flip back and forth would just make too much sense. Builders: Sorry I don’t speak ultra-cool pop-culture, can you translate your comment to english for me? I’m still confused as to why certain guys like you are happy at the misfortunes of others. Then again I guess forum leeches who contribute minimally because they probably lack the knowledge to add anything useful should probably stick to hoping people make mistakes similar to mine to give them a better chance.
2 things. 1) whether or not to answer with Pen/Pencil is a question that has been discussed many times over with the CFAI outside of the exam settings, and has been clarified - though they prefer pen, pencil is also ok. 2) Instructions on the exam booklet - front and back which they read ALOUD in the hall - indicated that pages were provided for answering and that the answers should be labelled precisely. So these were NOT meant to be glossed over. Additionally - the part about the sections being graded by individual graders, that the question paper section could have notes marked by you (in the same small handwriting) and which would be indistinguishable from the “Real” answer - does need to be taken into account. I do feel for you Bucky and Mark - but this is my thought on the entire thing. Parts 1 and 2 cannot be the same thing… (as you are pointing out above).
markCFAIL Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > CFFFAAAAA: What do you mean how I did? You mean > how I think I did if they graded it, or you mean > you want me to follow up to let you know what > comes of their decision to grade or not (about 99% > sure they won’t)? > > Bucky: I have not run this up the ladder, but the > customer service rep that I called the day after > told me I was SOL, I asked for a supervisor and he > said “they’ll tell you the same thing”. But he > was kind enough to let me know he would report my > comments so they could “take it into consideration > for future exam formats”. Let me know what comes > of your efforts and what Schweser says as well. > > Here is a radical idea! Make a question, and then > provide room below that question to answer it! I > guess not having to flip back and forth would just > make too much sense. > > Builders: Sorry I don’t speak ultra-cool > pop-culture, can you translate your comment to > english for me? I’m still confused as to why > certain guys like you are happy at the misfortunes > of others. Then again I guess forum leeches who > contribute minimally because they probably lack > the knowledge to add anything useful should > probably stick to hoping people make mistakes > similar to mine to give them a better chance. Mark, I’ll let you know what I hear from Schweser. When I contacted the CFAI, I heard back from a manager saying too bad, they wouldn’t grade my exam. If Schweser is correct, and there are hundreds of people who made this mistake, I feel it would be worth trying to escalate this at the CFAI. A group effort is likely going to be more effective. I’ll keep you updated with any more info I receive.
CPK 1.) Whether or not it has been clarified on this forum, the fact is the test booklet itself does not say pencil is optional, it says blue or black ink. I even had a pencil with me but the proctor told me I MUST use pen, so in order to not risk it, I did so. 2.) Whats your rebuttal to them grading your answer if you did not use the template? The test instructions clearly state you must use templates, yet they will grade them even if you don’t. They did read aloud, I misunderstood when they were describing the check boxes and thought they meant that you marked the page if you were going to use it, so I thought it was extra room. When you are nervous and sleep deprived you make silly mistakes. I get it, I misunderstood and did not read directions clearly enough. I fkd up. Should I fail because of this regardless of how I actually performed? Put yourself in my shoes before you answer. The ONLY valid argument I can see on their behalf aside from just being hard-nosed is the point you bring up about not knowing the “real” answer. However, if a logical person were to look at my paper and see that about 80% of questions that did not direct you to a template were answered completely on the question page (one or two were just too wordy to fit), and then left blank on the lined page, I think it would be pretty clear what my intent was. Why would somebody provide detailed “scratch” answers, and then nothing in the answer section?
Mark, I should have been clearer. What I meant to say is when you get your results, it would be great if you could share some feedback on how you did. If you receive some marks >70 then its obvious that they graded your work. Not looking to see if you passed or failed, just wanted to see if the graded your work that was outside of the correct areas.
Sure, will do CFFFAAAAA. Do they break out essay scores from multiple choice, so I can at least see how I did in the PM?
Mark, that’s terrible. I would be so frustrated. I think what makes it tricky is that pen vs. pencil, they still know what is your final answer that you wish to be graded. Template vs. lined paper, they still know what is the final answer that you wish to be graded (since both are written on gradable pages of the test). The problem with your situation is you wrote answers such that it’s no longer clear “what is the final answer that you wish to be graded”. The CFAI would have to step into that grey area of “OK, we’re assuming since he wrote nothing or very little on the lined pages that this must be his answer over here on the question pages…” and when they get into that game, then where do they draw the line? What about the candidate who took “notes” on the question pages, containing something correct, and then went on to incorrrectly answer the question on the lined pages. Should that individual also have the subjective grading of the “notes” applied? I do feel really terrible for you but if they don’t come through in your favour, my guess is that it is because they can’t start doing subjective grading like that and still be fair to all the other candidates.
I hate to say it, but I would be shocked if they allowed what you wrote on the question pages to be graded. It states clearly that whatever you write on those pages will not be graded. Its a slippery slope - what if they graded what you wrote on the question page but not someone who worked a problem correctly on the question page but ran out of time and didnt transfer it to the lined pages? Where would the line be drawn? The only fair way to do it is to grade what is in the template or lined pages, otherwise every band 8 fail and above are going to scream bloody murder and demand a retab. I certainly agree the format is terrible (sat for L3 this year). Lines should be given directly under the question. However I think you assuming that the tiny bit of space between each question would be enough room for more than a small percentage of candidates is a little off. I think most logical people would look at the amount of space given and realize its not nearly enough to answer the question and try to find a better place to write their answer. Feel bad for you but I doubt it goes well.
markCFAIL Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Builders: Sorry I don’t speak ultra-cool > pop-culture, can you translate your comment to > english for me? I’m still confused as to why > certain guys like you are happy at the misfortunes > of others. Then again I guess forum leeches who > contribute minimally because they probably lack > the knowledge to add anything useful should > probably stick to hoping people make mistakes > similar to mine to give them a better chance. i feel so honored to get a dedicated section in your respone. my response: whether i pass by an inch (the scenario where your near 0 on the AM section brnigs down the MPS just enough) or by a mile (the scenario where i rocked the exam), a pass is a pass is a pass.
builders Wrote: > my response: whether i pass by an inch (the > scenario where your near 0 on the AM section > brnigs down the MPS just enough) or by a mile (the > scenario where i rocked the exam), a pass is a > pass is a pass. Uhm… the MPS does not depend on the performance of the candidate pool anymore. It’s determined by a committee using the “Angoff Method”.
if its any consolation, it took me and probably many other a fail in level 3 to really understand the format of the level 3 exam. Last year when I wrote level 3 for the the first time, I was pretty confused by the process and missed a few templates during the morning portion of the exam. This time around, I already knew what to look for. I guess what we could do is talk about the format of the exam for level 3 leading up to the exam so others won’t have to suffer the same fate.
people are really getting worked up for what could be nothing. Format didnt bother me…I took too much time on the first few questions which rushed me. most alarmning to me was stuff that I thought I knew cold, I actually didnt. now that sucks.
Mark, Thanks. Yes, they break out the results. You will receive a result for each morning question (>70, between 50 and 70, and <50) and a result for each afternoon category. Score are separate, so if there was economic questions in the morning and afternoon, you will receive a result for each (it will not be a combined result).
I think a separate answer book would be helpful (think blue book in college). Additionally I think they should have a dedicated section for each question, as opposed to a lined area where you label which question you are answering. My answer sheets were a mess because I had to cross out a variety of answers because I was using a pen. I think this may make it hard to follow. You would think it would make their lives a lot easier to since they would have a uniform answer book instead of hunting through lined paper for a given question. I think I labeled the questions but I was in such a rush after getting tripped up on Q1A that I don’t know. I certainly didn’t have time to go back and look. Long story short it’s a terrible format but you have to play by their rules…
For such a group of supposedly intelligent people, they should be able to put out an exam that doesn’t create such confusion. Just put the god damn answer lines underneath the question, how hard is that? Builders, I bet my score on the aggregate is higher than your score even given my missing almost all the morning section. Its all good though, we can both sit through it next year and I’ll be sure to answer all your questions when you get confused. The “not knowing what is a real answer” argument is the only one that has clout. I know it would be subjective to an extent, but like i said, if you see that EVERY answer is clearly written out, yet nothing is on the answer page, then how much subjectivity is required to determine intent? Fact of the matter is, either apply rules on a consistent basis, or don’t apply them. If you put instructions on a test, make them all apply, or none. This is the only “fair” way. I am fighting this as much as I am because I put so much time and effort in, probably twice as much as other levels, just so I wouldn’t have to do it again. So, what do I have to lose? And Programmer, while I’m glad it’s not just me that has made this mistake, or similar mistakes, passing or failing should never ever ever come down to format. If more than 2% of candidates fail because of formatting issues, they need re-consider their exam construction process.
mark I agree the exam format does take some getting used to. Template/format/pages etc. what struck me as particularly noticeable was the page numbering on the exams AM sessions provided. There were a whole bunch of missing pages. Then I did read the CFA website - and realized that they provided the “lined pages” for answering questions. As regards Templates vs. rewriting the whole thing on ruled pages - distinction is a. who did not use the template is wasting time, recreating the template. b. it is still being written out on a separate page. In any case - I am not trying to put anything against you here. I know you were very well prepared, and do deserve the pass - and this is something beyond our control. As regards your other question - they do breakout the AM and PM sessions grades.
CPK, totally understand and your points are valid, but again, not to be a broken record, but… a.) the website is not required reading, so if your going to present an exam as a “copy” of last years, make it a copy, I don’t care how many fkng trees get killed. b.) whether the template takes time to recreate in the lined pages is irrelevant, and the fact that it’s re-written on a separate page is also irrelevant. The instructions say “use the template”. I have yet to hear a decent rebuttal on how this rule can be bent but the others cannot. If the paper says “use the template”, you should not be pardoned for not using the fkng template, period. I was VERY careful to look for those stupid templates because I had practiced their prior morning exams and gotten use to them popping out of nowhere. The whole POS format needs to be re-done, but as it stands, my argument is that you cannot apply rules partially, and whatever the website says is irrelevant because it isn’t required reading. That would be like saying that because the official online GIPS has something that they tested that wasn’t in the curriculum GIPS, it’s fair. I don’t think there would be a grey area for them here in grading my paper for two reasons: i) I answered damn near every question the same way, and left the lines blank, so who would write out an answer to leave the “real” answer blank, on multiple questions. ii) I contacted them immediately when I found out of my mistake, so it’s not like I got a failing score and was like "hey, can you guys check to see if some of my “scratch” was more correct than my answer, and, uhhhh… gimme credit?
I feel ya markC. During the exam I kept forgetting to write I. I would write A. then continue with my answer, then realize I forgot the whole I. II. III. and would have to go back and recorrect. When I took the mock exams, I practiced using looseleaf paper but during the exam, I can see how it could be easy to get side tracked because you’re just trying to answer the question as fast as you can. I wish you the best. I hope this doesn’t result in a failing grade for you.
mark - I am sure you are not the only one who has done this over the years. I am sure the CFAI will give you credit where due and just see what happens. I know you are worked up, but I would not let this overtake your life. You studied for 6 months for this exam and now you are going to spend another 3 months stressing about the results. Not worth it. You have done everything you can to rectify the situation (called, wrote, emailed, whatever). Let it go, learn from it, and come back better the next time (if there is a next time). You may have passed and all this worrying is for nothing.