Nike Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Perhaps the gov’t should do nothing like the > 1920’s. VirginCFAHooker, you shouldn’t be in the > CFA program. Hey, the 1920’s were great. No oversight, rampant greed, “free markets”, and punishment of the guilty when the thing went to sh!t. Then, instead of trying to make sure that 25% of the workforce didn’t become poor, we just let it happen. All in the name of “strong currency” and other such stupidity. Geometrical thinking wasn’t in abundance. Same thing now. These fools think that “tough love” for the world is the best alternative, so they can satiate their desire to reduce the world to their own sub-par intellectual levels. Knuckle draggers.
No one of any intelligence or experience thinks letting this bailout fail is a good idea. Quite the contrary: Buffett, Gross, Howard Marks (the list goes on until it stops at idiots) all support Paulson and the bill.
I think we have to seperate what the bill was sold to us as by Bernake & Paulson Inc., and what it really was, which was slapstick legislation. Willy
virgin, are you against ANY kind of government action, or are you against this particular plan?
gideon Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > No one of any intelligence or experience thinks > letting this bailout fail is a good idea. Quite > the contrary: Buffett, Gross, Howard Marks (the > list goes on until it stops at idiots) all support > Paulson and the bill. But, but, but, they are only saying that because they have money invested! Those rich asses are only trying to save their own skins. Nobody owns pension or mutual funds, nobody has a 401k, but those rich jerks. STICK IT TO THEM! /end class war rant
I am 100% for intelligent, methodical government action that doesn’t cost me higher taxes. The government’s business is to educate the kids, build some roads and protect the borders… they should start doing that right before they get into the banking biz! OK?! Can I get an AMEN??? And, as I posted last night when I first read the bill, it is a simple taxpayer giveaway. If you read it you’d think the exact same thing. Wall Street is using their BS fear to make us think it’s do or die. This selloff today is BS. Do you think any investor worth his salt sold a single share of stock today? Do you think warren Buffett said, “oh no, the bailout flopped I better sell my Coke stock!” It was a bunch of daytraders and market makers pushing the stock down to accentuate the drama.
spierce Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > And if you didn’t like the bailout I hope you, > your family, and all of your friends lose their > jobs, and wait in soup lines for days to get > scraps. sounds exactly like your buddy Dubya said: WMD WMD WMD -imminent danger…freaking scaremongers
spierce Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Nike Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Perhaps the gov’t should do nothing like the > > 1920’s. VirginCFAHooker, you shouldn’t be in > the > > CFA program. > > > Hey, the 1920’s were great. No oversight, rampant > greed, “free markets”, and punishment of the > guilty when the thing went to sh!t. Ignorant/convenient t lies. The Fed inflated in the 20s to help Britain overcome its problems with going back to the gold stabdard at pre-war exchange rate. This was no free market. A central bank should not or cannot plan the economy in a free market or collude with other banks to try and manipulate interest rates. By the time the fed tightened in 1928-29 , the bubble was beyond redemption and the depression was inevitable. Its ridiculous that govt interference in the markets(govt chartering of the fannie and freddie for example and artificial low interest rates by gspan) are ignored and everything is blamed on “speculators” and free markets when in fact it is clearly a regulated economy.Freddie and fannie were some of the most regulated entities on earth.egulations dont equate to safety especially when the busineses have no incentive to heed those regulations. In an exact parallel to today, FDR blamed the speculators and businesses. More regulations and more taxes were recommended. The stupid policies and manipulation of rates of the 20s caused the depression and the the excessive regulations and price fixing of the 30s didnt allow it to get over quickly. There is no reason for the credit markets to “unfreeze” immediately because of any govt injection of money.american businesses will need to cut costs and try to find other ways to survive.bad investments will need to get liquidated and then rebuilding can start. Instead of claiming its a liquidity crisis,please realise that this is a solvency crisis. are you ignoring that there was cheap credit available for almost a decade?didnt that lead to poor investments?. is it supposed to linger in the system like gangrene?
For those who mention the 1920s, the government did do something. They RAISED TAXES causing further issues.
The real problem is that most American has spent the money they did not have. Wall Streets created delusional assets that has no real value. Now it is the payback time for Wall Street and Main Street. US government needs a bailout. It is broke itself. Surely it feels good when Fed prints trillions of dollar to save the market. . Who is going to bail US out when the dollar becomes toilet paper.
gideon Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > No one of any intelligence or experience thinks > letting this bailout fail is a good idea. Quite > the contrary: Buffett, Gross, Howard Marks (the > list goes on until it stops at idiots) all support > Paulson and the bill. That’s just not true and even if it was true it’s an inappropriate ad hominem argument. If you have something interesting to say about the bailout, have at it. If you just want to call other people inexperienced or unintelligent because they don’t believe what you believe, then grow up. In fact, nearly everyone has reservations about the bill that was presented. Nobody is even claiming authorship. It’s a foul plan and everyone knows it’s a foul plan. It just might be better than no plan at all or better than the one they will vote on next week because this one is ready and next week’s isn’t. Read that bill and find five things you think are offensive. That should take 20 minutes. Then think about whether someone of intelligence and experience might find some of those five things offensive enough to vote against the bill.
I have just read the bill, trying to find out how the assets are priced. It seems to me the pricing will be at the sole discretion of the treasury. “make such purchase at the lowest price the secretary determines to be consistent with the purpose of the act”, “maximize efficiency of the taxpayer’s resources by using market mechanism such as auction or reverse auction”, direct purchase allowed if market mechanism not feasible. so it comes down to whether you believe the treasury can protect the taxpayers or not. I agree that the bill more or less give the Treasury a blank check. But I have more faith that the treasury will be careful to write an appropriate number on that check. Whatever number they write, it will be scrutinize afterwards, so the treasury officials are likely to behave themselves. We are now on a boat that is leaking profusely. Some say we need to let the boat sink in order to punish those who did not maintain it properly. Some do not believe the leak is significant enough to sink the boat. I would rather not wait and found out that the boat did sink.
Okay I haven’t read this bill, won’t read the next and therefore won’t get into details. All I know is that the US government comes with a plan, works on a plan, gives the market and people hope, aims for a bi-partisan approach and then votes AGAINST the plan. That’s just WRONG. You can’t give people hope that you’re helping them and then do nothing. Both accepting the plan and never even having come up with a plan would have been better. This is the worst thing that could have happened.
I think it’s important to come up with some kind of plan. Maybe this wasn’t the right one.
DonYuan Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The real problem is that most American has spent > the money they did not have. Wall Streets created > delusional assets that has no real value. Now it > is the payback time for Wall Street and Main > Street. US government needs a bailout. It is broke > itself. Surely it feels good when Fed prints > trillions of dollar to save the market. . Who is > going to bail US out when the dollar becomes > toilet paper. Please, the hyperbole is so thick in there. 1. Americans may have put on too much debt, but it’s not really debt that’s killing the banks, but mark to market. 2. The assets do have value, future cashflows that are contractual. It is no different than valuing companies using DCF. 3. Check again, the dollar is going UP. Perhaps you should think about the ramifications of people checking against the dollar globally.
As far as people asking for a definition of how much they will pay for the assets, how fricking stupid are you? Do you contract with your broker, years ahead of time, to buy 2,000 different stocks, with a time horizon and price? Or do you call him up when the market is moving and tell him to buy? I really wonder how low the standards for the program have gotten that we have people on this board with this type of mentality.
spierce Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > As far as people asking for a definition of how > much they will pay for the assets, how fricking > stupid are you? > > Do you contract with your broker, years ahead of > time, to buy APPL at a specific price? Well, people do things like that all the time. It’s called the futures market. But your first point is correct, it’s a dumb question.
NakedPuts Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > spierce Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > As far as people asking for a definition of how > > much they will pay for the assets, how fricking > > stupid are you? > > > > Do you contract with your broker, years ahead > of > > time, to buy APPL at a specific price? > > Well, people do things like that all the time. > It’s called the futures market. But your first > point is correct, it’s a dumb question. you know dang well I wasn’t talking about futures.
Good try Hank. So much for the end of the world. The more I think about the crap they tried to pull over on us the more I think they (hank & ben) should be given the boot.
virginCFAhooker Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Good try Hank. So much for the end of the world. > > The more I think about the crap they tried to pull > over on us the more I think they (hank & ben) > should be given the boot. have you looked at the credit market’s reaction, even through today? Libor at 7%, ABCP at 9%. Where do you think those costs are going? You just saved on tax and layered on another. Tell me, did Devry put your diploma in lamination or a plastic frame?