Neud Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > They tend to keep their jobs what’s your source of info?
I have yet only heard about one charterholder laid of (from about 30 I am acquainted with). Besides, senior people say that contrary to the MBA, when the diploma per se doesn’t guarantee much (it’s very difficult to get kicked out of the business school, so once you are in, you will receive your MBA diploma even if you don’t put in much effort), CFA charter serves as a guarantee of 1) deep understanding of finance and 2) commitment and dedication. With an MBA graduate, you can’t be sure in either of these.
with an mba graduate from a top college u can be sure of many things, some of these are - i) High IQ ii) Habit of clocking long hours iii) Drive iv) Ambition, otherwise who would leave a well paying job and would spend big money instead to sit in those sickening classes v) He knows to tie a tie and can use crockery vi) Conversational vii) Networked viii) Indebted hence committed to work
sameeragarwal Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > with an mba graduate from a top college u can be > sure of many things, some of these are - > i) High IQ > ii) Habit of clocking long hours > iii) Drive > iv) Ambition, otherwise who would leave a well > paying job and would spend big money instead to > sit in those sickening classes > v) He knows to tie a tie and can use crockery > vi) Conversational > vii) Networked > viii) Indebted hence committed to work I am an MBA dude and what you are describing here is pretty irrelevant - there are so many morons with MBA’s. I had this class mate who would never understand CAPM despite so many attempts. The course will give you general management skills not improve your IQ(ever wondered why every one passes an MBA?).
On retrenchment you might be right that mbas get fired readily while cfas tend to stick. This might be because mbas cost a whole lot more than a grad+cfa and when there is no work no one cares about productivity
@JOE2010 - i agree with you and hence crystal clear understanding of concepts is not one of the 8 points, passing mba is not a big deal and it should not be for any full time course, what do you want that a chap study for two years and at the end of it he has a gap of two years in his resume admission process is so rigorous in these colleges that if you dont have the drive to excel, you would not make it, you dont have to believe me just trying for getting admission into one of those would do
why you can be “sure” he is indebted? Many people may pay for MBA with their own funds.
oh boy … this is probably the most exciting thread at the moment. Neuds on FIRE!
i dont blame you neways just to clear we are not talking about outliers here
An MBA, whether from a top school or not, is obviously a leg up in the job market. It shows a committment to furthering your education, and (especially if taken part-time) a willingness to work hard towards your career goals. A CFA does the same thing. The CFA and the MBA cover different material. I don’t think I need to explain the differences to most people on this thread. My point is… Employers are looking for a “signal” that a candidate is knowledgable, coachable and hard working. An MBA and/or CFA are a great way of giving that “signal” to employers. That being said, there is no substitute for relevant work experience. Just my 2 cents.
I have the CFA charter but will be applying to top 7 MBA programs in the fall. I can tell you definitively that a TOP TIER MBA is more highly regarded in banking among *MOST* people. That being said, of my directors that have both the MBA and CFA (at least 4 that I know personally who went to top 20 MBA programs), all of them think more highly of the CFA. In terms of opening doors though, the MBA is more valuable.
DirtyZ Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I have the CFA charter but will be applying to top > 7 MBA programs in the fall. Do you think admission committee of the top 7 program will think very highly of the CFA charter and give you admission primarily for having a charter or will they focus on the usual (undergrad GPA, solid work exp, gmat etc) and take cfa as ‘just-another-certificate’ ?
I think the majority of those looking to do an MBA have some serious self confidence issues. I say this as someone who once considered an MBA and read the BW forums for over a year. What I finally concluded is that I don’t need an MBA to open doors in my field (traditional AM) and I have no interest in being hired by firms that value the MBA to such a degree that they mainly consider MBAs. Recruiting only at business schools is extremely lazy and shortsighted of those firms. The question you have to ask yourself is whether you would want to work at say Western Asset Management where the MBA is not nearly as important as relevant experience and knowledge or say a PIMCO where you’ll often find random MBA grads from non finance pre-MBA industries (think Teach for America or Management Consulting) in higher positions than industry veteran associates with 6+ years experience working for them. The culture of the later is far inferior to the former (IMO). I think that translates into results in the long run (though recent performance doesn’t really bear this out).
MFE22 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I am talking about ROI. Instead of expensive MBA, > you can get MS in management, in finance, in > marketing, economics, engineering for cheap. and youll still be looking for a job when you graduate.
surveyinn it is my understanding that the admissions officers do value the CFA, but only as one data point of many: undergrad, work experience, gmat, good “story” (i.e. compelling essays), community involvement, and LEADERSHIP potential, etc. The CFA shows that you can do the quant work required in bschool, and it shows a relatively high level of commitment to finance and relatively strong work ethic. However, I think that the top schools will not weight it too heavily, although it will certainly not hurt you and may help you if you’re a marginal candidate. I agree with many posters on the board that the MBA is overrated in what you learn. I’ve been very disappointed with the quality of many freshly minted MBAs. They simply don’t aren’t that good at the job - they lack attention to detail, do not have great finance skills, and generally aren’t much better than a smart 2nd year analyst. However, they do come with a level of polish that you might not see in every CFA candidate. Business schools are good at churning out people who understand the system and are willing to jump through a few hoops to earn their place in it. There was an interesting special on CNBC last night about Harvard Business School in which the founder of Blackstone said in an interview that he thinks the MBA is tremendously valuable and that people who don’t have it will jump up against a “glass ceiling” in their career development in their 6th or 7th year out of school. I tend to agree with this; *ON AVERAGE* those with a top tier MBA will have many more opportunities for the rest of their careers than those who battle on without it. That being said, I respect the analytical abilities of the average charterholder more than the average MBA, but a top 10 MBA holds a lot more value from what I’ve seen.
"They simply don’t aren’t that good at the job - they lack attention to detail, " Good stuff.
What’s up Dirty. I’m going for my MBA next fall. Cast all the insults you want. For awhile I thought an MBA was not needed if one was pursing a CFA Charter. I’m beginning to realize that the CFA is only a piece of the puzzle. While I agree the CFA is a bigger piece, the MBA should improve some of the skills I’ve lacked and build other skills that management desires.
Are MBAs tend to be “big picture” rather than “attention to detail”? What about Msc/MA in Economics versus MBA after several years of work in research and S&T in a regional brokerage company? I already got a BSM degree in Finance from a Top 50 US school and our undergrad B school curriculum was pretty much Mini MBA. I will be sick of doing the Big MBA! Can Msc in Economics with several years of work experience apply for associate position in investment bank?
DirtyZ: The Chairman’s opinion is probably true for the megafund PE business. I don’t think it holds for most other segments of the financial world. Of course it doesn’t make sense to work for such people/firms if you haven’t jumped through the same hoops. There are plenty of people and firms that don’t think this way.
The main problem with the MBA is 2 years without full-time job. In the early stages of one’s career, this experience may easily be much more important for employers than the diploma (in case experience is relevant, i.e. if we are not talking about career changers).