People usually get some combination of a teaching fellowship and research fellowship, with loans when necessary. The loans should be very easy to get, especially federal Stafford loans, but you can apply for private education loans pretty easily as well. Outside fellowships from government agencies are pretty lucractive, but the competition is fierce. While its possible to seek extra employment while you study, it is very difficult and you are much better off getting the teaching/research fellowship. Your main goals would be to get through the classes (least important, as long as you get a passing grade), pass the qualifiers (very important in order to continue to research), then the research topic itself - which can range from hard to ridiculously hard since you’re main goal is to contribute in a meaningful way in a field where people with much more experience than you’ve gotten are contributing. In the end, you will be judged by the quality of your research, not the number of As in your classes or high score in your qualifying exam - thought these last two things may aid in getting in with a good professor since some of the professors are extremely picky with who they admit (they have a lineage to consider and a limited amount of funding). Good luck with whatever you choose, Black Swan, you seem like a serious and motivated guy - and I’m sure you’ll succeed in whatever you choose.
Black Swan Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Subliminity, I obviously respect JDV, as does > Mobias, but telling people who haven’t worked at a > hedge fund (which you haven’t either) that they > can’t offer their opinion is just incorrect. This > would be a quiet forum if that were the case. > Additionally, I never expressed a desire to work > in the hedge fund industry (which I’ve been told > isn’t all it’s cracked up to be), so let’s not > make assumptions. I was referring to his never having suffered through graduate school, passed qualifiers, and produced original research - yet commenting on it. I don’t even care, so I’m not going to argue. > Secondly, judging people by > their professional stature or income is the height > of folly, so try never to get caught up in that. If anything, I ignore people’s professional stature or income and think in terms of smarts and hard work.
Thanks subliminity, that actually helped a lot. I grew up in a rural area where only MD’s and lawyers had grad degrees, and by extension didn’t know what ibanking was until after graduating college. So this is all pretty new to me and each peice helps. I learn pretty fast, but I’m always amazed after the fact how little I know about simple things like this before hand.
This taught me a lot pre-grad school, transitioning, and has been a good source even up to now. http://www.phds.org/graduate-school And of course, this has a pretty large following… 
I would say that it is the most accurate description of graduate school out there, hahaha, written by a former Stanford grad student. http://www.phdcomics.com/comics.php
> > I was referring to his never having suffered > through graduate school, passed qualifiers, and > produced original research - yet commenting on it. > I don’t even care, so I’m not going to argue. > this is again incorrect because i’ve *suffered* in grad school and passed qualifiers, and then left my phd program because i decided that i wanted to work and get experience. i do think that getting a phd is a commitment that goes far beyond the idea that it is a “nice degree” to add to your resume when you graduate so that you can land a dream job. it will be a torture unless you are passionate about the material and the research that you are going to do. my impression is that most people that post here are career-minded and black swan’s question is about ways to diversify his background and improve his career opprtunities. why would anyone with that goal commit to the time and effort that a phd study is, when masters is clearly the answer tailored to their needs?? just because some people get a boner when the words “stats”, “phd” and “hedge-fund” are used in one sentence? your reaction to my 2c is competely ungrounded but whatever
K, cool.
i dont think you will find many math programs that will offer teaching assistanship/fellowship/research assistanship if you terminal degree is at the masters level. but it sounds like for your needs a part-time program while you work might be the best answer to bring you up to speed on quant stuff
Mobius Striptease, you are entertaining. : )
good to know
Black Swan Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > For someone with a strong interest in economics, > models and trading strategies (with an MS in > Finance), which degree would you recommend to > augment true mathematical understanding (giving a > fair balance between practitioner and theoretical > grounds, I’m kind of an academic). > > MS in Statistics > MS in Mathematics > MA in Mathematics > > Also, could you highlight the differences in your > perceptions of each as someone familiar with the > field? BS - When are you deciding where to head next, is there a deadline for these programs? You definitely are building up an interesting set of credentials.
If you are kind of an academic with a strong interest in economics, why don’t you apply for a PhD in Economics? It has a bit of everything (math, econ, stat, finance, etc.) At my econ dept. we could take any grad level math courses over at the math dept. for ‘true mathematical understanding’. I saw many people do MS in Statistics followed by PhD Econ
philip.platt Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Black Swan Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > For someone with a strong interest in > economics, > > models and trading strategies (with an MS in > > Finance), which degree would you recommend to > > augment true mathematical understanding (giving > a > > fair balance between practitioner and > theoretical > > grounds, I’m kind of an academic). > > > > MS in Statistics > > MS in Mathematics > > MA in Mathematics > > > > Also, could you highlight the differences in > your > > perceptions of each as someone familiar with > the > > field? > > > BS - When are you deciding where to head next, is > there a deadline for these programs? You > definitely are building up an interesting set of > credentials. I’m not making any decisions until I graduate from the MSF program here in about 2.5 months. I’d like to start a job of some form to get steady income again and pursue one of those degrees at a part time pace. I hope that’s not “interesting” credentials in a bad way.
approaching_c Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > If you are kind of an academic with a strong > interest in economics, why don’t you apply for a > PhD in Economics? It has a bit of everything > (math, econ, stat, finance, etc.) At my econ dept. > we could take any grad level math courses over at > the math dept. for ‘true mathematical > understanding’. I saw many people do MS in > Statistics followed by PhD Econ I did say in a later post that that was probably my end goal. However, I’d like my econ phd to be from a top school and think I would need to strengthen my quantative skillset with maybe a MS in Stats like you described.
Just take some extra math courses at a community college if you feel your math is a bit weak. Save the degree Programs for things where the degree itself is the objective.
Black Swan Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > philip.platt Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Black Swan Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > For someone with a strong interest in > > economics, > > > models and trading strategies (with an MS in > > > Finance), which degree would you recommend to > > > augment true mathematical understanding > (giving > > a > > > fair balance between practitioner and > > theoretical > > > grounds, I’m kind of an academic). > > > > > > MS in Statistics > > > MS in Mathematics > > > MA in Mathematics > > > > > > Also, could you highlight the differences in > > your > > > perceptions of each as someone familiar with > > the > > > field? > > > > > > BS - When are you deciding where to head next, > is > > there a deadline for these programs? You > > definitely are building up an interesting set > of > > credentials. > > I’m not making any decisions until I graduate from > the MSF program here in about 2.5 months. I’d > like to start a job of some form to get steady > income again and pursue one of those degrees at a > part time pace. I hope that’s not “interesting” > credentials in a bad way. Definitely interesting in a good/cool way in that you will probably pull together some useful conclusions/investments at some point in your career.
From my understanding during grad school application process, US phd students do a 1-2 years of masters level coursework before the dissertation. You can fill any gaps in your math background in those first 2 years and be fine. THat’s what professors told me. Since in Canada it’s a bit different; a terminal Master’s degree is more respected here, whereas in the US it seems to indicate you weren’t good enough to do a phd.
My position is very close to the one of Mobius (even though I’m biased since mobius and integral were the symbols of my department).
If you’re a US citizen, it should be easy for you to get some kind of assistantship/scholarship to get your PH.D in scientific areas, tons of research projects need some kind of security clearance and those are only open to US citizens. It’s a four year commitment living on minimum wage, so you have to make sure you’re ready for it. There is no comparison between a Masters and a Ph.D. Most masters degrees now are offered with a non-thesis option, which essentially requires a bunch of classes and you’re done, pretty much any one can get one of those ( I changed schools after my first year in the Ph.D program to a better school, and my old school gave me a Masters for my troubles as a souvenir I guess ) To get you’re Ph.D you’ll have to do original research (after you clear a qualifying exam which is not trivial), come up with something new, or an extension/modification to an existing concept/technique/procedure, program it, test it, publish it, defend it, and so on., it’s a lot of work actually.
Why not just do MFE?
Mobius, I am in a similar situation where I am leaving ABD from my finance phd. I’m curious what type of position you obtained right out of grad school? I’m working on my computational finance skills (ie C++, Matlab, R) currently and hope to land a jr. risk management or quant developer role. Personally, I couldn’t justify 3+ more years of research when I had no desire to pursue an academic job. Moreover, previous classmates that also left ABD have done alright for themselves even without the phd. Now I understand this limits my options on ‘true’ quant roles but I’m alright with that. Certainly if many non-quant folk can make it in this business, there’s a place for me (I hope…).