I don’t think there’s much debate as to the top schools - the top 3 and the top 7 are pretty much universally recognized despite what the rags say in any given year: Harvard Stanford Wharton Chicago Northwestern MIT Columbia After that, you have (in no particular order): Dartmouth Cal Duke NYU Yale Virginia UCLA Michigan That about rounds out the top 15. I’m going to apply next fall to 8 of those (all top 7 less Stanford, and 2 from the next cohort), and hope to make the cut with 1! Best of luck to everyone that’s applying…it’s going to be a tough squeeze the next 2 years with all the unemployed applying.
Yeah, I guess I agree with your list. As it looks pretty close to what I would say. However, just to play devil’s advocate look at what the WSJ Recruiter Rankings said: Rank Rank University (Business School) 05/04 1 3 Dartmouth College (Tuck) 2 1 University of Michigan (Ross) 3 2 Carnegie Mellon University (Tepper) 4 7 Northwestern University (Kellogg) 5 6 Yale University 6 4 University of Pennsylvania (Wharton) 7 15 University of California, Berkeley (Haas) 8 8 Columbia University 9 11 University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill (Kenan-Flagler) 10 – University of Southern California (Marshall) 11 12 University of Virginia (Darden) 12 9 Massachusetts Institute of Technology (Sloan) 13 5 University of Chicago 14 13 Harvard University 15 10 Stanford University 16 17 New York University (Stern) 17 14 Duke University (Fuqua) 18 18 Cornell University (Johnson) 19 19 University of California, Los Angeles (Anderson)
You have to take certain lists with a grain of salt. Any list that has UNC ranked ahead of Harvard, Stanford, and Chicago is laughable. BUT, these various lists use different criteria. Recruiters (in the WSJ poll) don’t like the top 5 grads as much because these grads have a greater sense of entitlement and are more demanding in terms of pay and responsibility. Don’t forget though that many of these recruiters are for industries you don’t want to be in that don’t require the highest caliber people. If you’re John Deere Tractors and you want to offer some guy 80K + 10K bonus, the Harvard grads will laugh in your face (and get a lower recruiter score), while someone from UNC may think that’s a job they like. Not the best example…but you get my drift.
It’s important to remember that all these rankings are designed to get you to buy their magazine, so they have to change it every year. I always think about where would you go if you got into more than one school. Would you really go to Ross if you got into Harvard? Of course not. It also depends on what you are studying. If you are a finance major, would you pick Wharton over Harvard? Probably not but perhaps. If you want marketing or strategy, would you pick Kellogg over Stanford? Perhaps! I agree with the list of schools above, I’d add Carnegie Mellon and Haas to the second tier list as well.
Also, I would probably move Tuck into the first category.
I hardly doubt that Cornell ranks just behind Stanford and NYU. While top 20 sounds about right, latter two should rank higher. Anyone considering European MBAs? For example, INSEAD.
Recruiter satisfaction is an extremely flimsy basis for school rankings. I don’t think any publication could convince me that Stanford is not, in every way, a top-3 program. I don’t think Stern is much better than Cornell, though. My problem with NYU lies in its part-time program. They have absolutely no standards in their admissions process, and as stuck up as it sounds, I don’t want potential recruiters to lump me in with that group.
My last post makes it look like I’m only knocking NYU. While I think it’s overrated, I also think that Cornell is underrated by many publications. I’d say it’s definitely in my top 15.
brother bilo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > My last post makes it look like I’m only knocking > NYU. While I think it’s overrated, I also think > that Cornell is underrated by many publications. > I’d say it’s definitely in my top 15. I got my BS/MS degrees from Cornell and took my share of classes at Johnson Business school. I believe Architecture, Hotel Management, Engineering, Medical programs are top notch, but business school is very blah, especially MBA in Finance. That said I might be expecting too much. Cons: 1)Classes are too big 2)Number of available classes is too small 3)Situated in the middle of nowhere 4)Too many undergrads in mba classes 5)Bad recognition beyond Northeast 6)Weaker alumni network Pros: 1)Dual MBA program with Queens college in Canada 2)12 month option (MS+MBA in 2 years) 3)Option to take elective classes from such diverse school as Cornell (think Wines, History of Rock, etc)
You guys shouldn’t be looking at rankings that rate MBA schools as a whole, including all concentrations and programs, but focus more on rankings by specialty. Try reading through the sources to get a sense of which school you think fits you or is the best for you. I do say that probably Chicago and Wharton are the two best in terms of finance. Both US News and Businessweek confirm this by specialty. Wharton, being the oldest finance program, and Chicago, having the best faculty (in my opinion) coupled with the recent $300 million donation from David Booth – he’s from DFA (Dimensional Fund Advisors), top any school out there in terms of finance.
My sibling was in admissions for a top b-school. He/she once had a discussion with a colleaque who didn’t understand so didn’t place much value on a CFA (an applicant had a CFA). My sibiling did value the degree. The lesson from this discussion is; if the person you interview with doesn’t get it - value of a CFA - your application is reviewed by a committee and someone on the committee will. In this case the CFA helped someone with a weak quant score overcome the presumption that that individual wasn’t strong enough in this area.
BrownBear Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > My sibling was in admissions for a top b-school. > He/she once had a discussion with a colleaque who > didn’t understand so didn’t place much value on a > CFA (an applicant had a CFA). My sibiling did > value the degree. The lesson from this discussion > is; if the person you interview with doesn’t get > it - value of a CFA - your application is reviewed > by a committee and someone on the committee will. > In this case the CFA helped someone with a weak > quant score overcome the presumption that that > individual wasn’t strong enough in this area. Post-op tranny?
classic.
The MBA+MS in 2 years at Cornell sounds interesting.