@Dwight True, because Italian debt is not in Lira it is in Euro and Italy cannot print Euro unilaterally. Had the situation been different then perhaps Italy would not have the problems that it has now. This leads again to a different conversation which I will resist!
C3Po Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > @Dwight > > True, because Italian debt is not in Lira it is in > Euro and Italy cannot print Euro unilaterally. Had > the situation been different then perhaps Italy > would not have the problems that it has now. > > This leads again to a different conversation > which I will resist! Precisely. Has everything to do with the structure of the euro rather than debt loads. This also explains why Spain and Ireland have problems despite low debt levels and running budget surpluses for most of the past decade. I’m glad we agree. 
Dwight Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > C3Po Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > @Dwight > > > > True, because Italian debt is not in Lira it is > in > > Euro and Italy cannot print Euro unilaterally. > Had > > the situation been different then perhaps Italy > > would not have the problems that it has now. > > > > This leads again to a different conversation > > which I will resist! > > > > Precisely. Has everything to do with the > structure of the euro rather than debt loads. > This also explains why Spain and Ireland have > problems despite low debt levels and running > budget surpluses for most of the past decade. > > I’m glad we agree. > > Great, then the Euro saga should end soon as all these countries grow their way out of debt. Yaaaayyyyy, we are saved!!
equity_analyst Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Great, then the Euro saga should end soon as all > these countries grow their way out of debt. > > Yaaaayyyyy, we are saved!! You add a lot to AF. Thanks for being a regular poster.
bromion Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > equity_analyst Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Great, then the Euro saga should end soon as > all > > these countries grow their way out of debt. > > > > Yaaaayyyyy, we are saved!! > > You add a lot to AF. Thanks for being a regular > poster. Please, this place is a mere shadow of its former self in terms of quality posters and content, so save the drama for your mama.
equity_analyst Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Great, then the Euro saga should end soon as all > these countries grow their way out of debt. > > Yaaaayyyyy, we are saved!! The first step is understanding the problem. I would argue that you in particular seem to have a deep need to point fingers and press blame on people for what in your mind is what they have “done wrong”. “Borrowed too much and now we need to pay”, etc. I believe your narrow worldview is gradually losing and will continue to lose traction as people come to understand the dynamics of modern monetary systems, debt, economic growth, etc. Mixing morality with economics is usually a bad idea. For example the housing bubble in the US during the 2000s was partially fueled by encouragement of home-ownership based on a moralistic perspective. The idea itself was not a bad one, but it backfired because people failed to consider the real-world implications of their moral goals. “We cannot absolutely prove that those are in error who tell us that society has reached a turning point, that we have seen our best days. But so said all who came before us, and with just as much apparent reason.” -Thomas B. Macaulay, 1830 “Faced with the choice between changing one’s mind and proving there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.” - John Kenneth Galbraith
@Dwight, Just to correct your statement above: Home-ownership is not a moral issue but rather an issue of financial means and preference. I.e., it’s not an issue of right or wrong(good or bad) for someone to own a home. But rather an issue of personal preference and financial ability; similar to owning a car versus using public transportation, again not an issue of right or wrong. I think you misunderstand what morality is.
Zesty Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > @Dwight, Just to correct your statement above: > Home-ownership is not a moral issue but rather an > issue of financial means and preference. I.e., > it’s not an issue of right or wrong(good or bad) > for someone to own a home. But rather an issue of > personal preference and financial ability; similar > to owning a car versus using public > transportation, again not an issue of right or > wrong. I think you misunderstand what morality is. I think we are in agreement here. What I am saying is that home-ownership was PERCEIVED as a moral issue as in “everyone should be able to own a home”. It was then subsidized and led to an eventual collapse. I believe you are saying the same thing that this is a bad way to view things and contributed to the crisis. Similarly with the Eurozone their are a number of stories that are based on moral points of view rather than fact. “The PIIGS governments borrowed too much and need to pay for their sins” etc. For example Germany ran some of the largest deficits and has the most vacation days on average of any country in the EU. Ireland and Spain ran budget surpluses yet are needing bailouts. The story just doesn’t fit the facts. My point is that as with the housing bubble people are mixing in their worldviews on right and wrong and good and bad (i.e. deficits are “bad” savings are “good”) with policy prescriptions and coming to the wrong conclusions (like that austerity and “pain” will solve things).
^ok yeah, got you
BuySideWannabe Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I’m praying we see a sharp rally soon so that I > can sell some of my portfolio and get the hell out > of the equity market… I’m very bearish, and I > believe we have lots of downside risk over the > next year or two… > > This week has absolutely crushed me, especially > since i thought of selling some stuff last > week…but figured I’d wait a bit longer…baddd > idea on my part. > > let’s hope for some good news for tomorrow. woooo, glad I waited for the rally…sold my position and took a nice gain (and foreign exchange gain too when I convert back to CDN) now back to some research on what to get into next…