Obamacare Troof!

You guys are still discussing this topic south of the border?!

Yes but you miss the point that routine check ups and birth control bills are like preventive maintenance on a car. They are the small routine expenses that effectively prevent the catastrophic and exponentially more expensive emergency treatments.

Being proactive about health care is one reason why every other industrialized country in the world spends 50% less per capita on health care than the United States, generally have better outcomes for patients and laregely offer systems with universal coverage.

rawraw, thanks for your comment. I am not a match for bchad in terms of intellectual experience or breadth of knowledge, but being a knock off bchad is still not bad in my view.

http://io9.com/the-u-s-has-the-most-expensive-least-effective-health-1591403515?utm_campaign=socialflow_io9_facebook&utm_source=io9_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

^Based on no empirical information, I believe that chart to be (almost) completely bogus. There’s no way the US is ranked anywhere but 1st when it comes to timeliness of care. I’ve heard way too many Brits talk about how much they hate their healthcare system to see all those 1’s.

I like all the flags.

Me too. It’s the happiest part.

Agree. My family in England pays for private healthcare… as do most people there who can afford it, so I infer.

Well, hard to comment without knowing the true methodology (even the source paper is kind of vague). However, some things seem to make sense, or are particularly surprising:

  1. US problems are basically that healthcare is too expensive and inefficient. US is last in efficiency and cost. Other categories where US is last (access) can also be improved through lower costs.

  2. “Healthy lives” = US is full of fat asses? Ok, agree with that.

  3. Canada is second last. So maybe debate between US and Canada systems is not that productive.

  4. France is last in Access? Shove that to Sarkozy the next time he says US does not offer access to all citizens.

  5. Not sure why the author has such a boner for UK. One thing the UK has that US does not: abundance of doctors. So maybe that is one thing.

  6. Maybe other countries should be happy that US suffers high costs, inequality and inefficiency. Some country needs to run big pharma cartels so they can subsidize generic level prices internationally.

  7. Also, inequality in healthcare in the US is sort of misleading. The US is probably the least equitable country in this list to begin with. So even if all countries had the same healthcare system, US would still rank last in equality.

Too expensive? Definitely. Inefficient? Maybe, depends on what you’re gauging the efficiency of. I can get my kids into one of the best Children’s Hospitals in the country on a moment’s notice, receive great care, and schedule timely follow-up appointments as necessary. From the perspective of, “did we accomplish our goals in a timely and affective manner?” Then I’d say we’re extremely efficient.

Were we fiscally responsible along the way. Hell no. But, that’s not as obvious as it may appear. That’s per capita number is complete BS. That appears to be the amount _ billed _ per person. For example, the myth of one Tylenol costing a patient $80 at the hospital is bogus. It gets billed at $80 but by the time the insurance company (or worse, medicare) negotiate it down, it looks much more reasonable. Still expensive, but we should really be looking at the amount _ paid _ per person instead of billed.

From here we could do a deeper dive, a la Inception, to find out why doctors bill patients so much. It’s not really that hard to figure out. Medicare pays pennies on the dollar. In many cases doctors actually lose money when dealing with Medicare. Insurance companies are only slightly better to deal with. Then you have people that don’t pay anything at all. That’s why doctors bill so high. We’re already paying for healthcare for all. We’re just going about it in a very inefficient way.

All that said, the road to increasing efficiency (in any area) does not lead through Washington.

It is frustrating that medical costs are so opaque. Particularly since it is often not feasible to “shop around for a doctor” when you need it, the way you shop around for peaches when you’re hungry. Even when you do, you discover the price you’ve been charged is not really the price you expected to pay when you chose the medical plan.

I have insurance, but I have absolutely no idea what it will actually cost to have anything checked or done. All I know is that the numbers will be astronomical, so that even a misjudgment of 1 or 2% in expected costs can add up to hundreds or even thousands of dollars.

Last time I went for a physical, I went to a cushy full service executive place that had a continental breakfast served for after you had your blood drawn, you’re handed a nice set of scrubs to wear while you go around the office, it was nice. It is a service kind of meant for executives and people who may not have a primary care doctor in the city. Anyway besides the point, when I got the insurance benefit explanation, it said the charge was like $1300. 100% covered by insurance, so I have no idea what insurance actually paid but I thought that was completely insane for some bloodwork and spending probably an hour with a bunch of nurses and like 30 mins with a doctor.

That’s why it’s so important we move to HRAs and HSAs instead of the traditional PPO or HMO co-pay system. When you have an HRA/HSA you need to ask those questions and think about the costs.

Exactly, it’s like places that tell you you’re getting a 90% discount off of a price that no one ever pays, except the poor sod that doesn’t know any better.

If you can’t afford insurance because you’re near the poverty line (under the old system, at least) it’s as though one is haggling in a bazarre in Marrakech, except with a javelin sticking in your gut while you do it.

Of course, the question then comes up, “Why should someone who’s too poor to buy insurance” get to pay only $40 for a tylenol, unlike the $80 that’s written on the bill for the rest of us who have insurance." But that’s just a wierd way to price things.

You and I would end up paying the $40. The poor person doesn’t pay anything. Hence why it’s billed at $80. Clear as mud, right?

So…which country has good healthcare?

I have no idea. I do know that if you ask 100 people, most of them will probably respond saying some country that they’ve never lived in and based their decision off some news article.

switzerland seems legit

According to Dennis Rodman’s recent memoir , it’s North Korea.